POTD 6/15/2020 Baby Lickety Split

[Taffeta]

So I don't want to derail this thread any more, so I'm gonna put this in spoilers. And I won't post on the subject again, because, frankly, it's a bit redundant now the point has been made.

Spoiler

Firstly - logic. You've already demonstrated the problem with the terms. You've both said the terms are interchangeable with PACS or NSS and that they're not.

Magenta Posey, Truly, Cupcake are not Movie Star ponies. So NSS=/=Movie Star. But then if you expand it, we have multiple regular versions of Gusty, Cherries Jubilee and Lickety as well as Posey to factor in. I've seen all these described as NSS and also not described as NSS. Thus the term is unhelpful as it has blurred boundaries. It also ties them to the wrong timeline. The Wiki section on these is horrible because it's attempting to link them to the SS set, and as a result, ponies are missing.

With PACS, if NBBE=PACS, what about Baby Applejack? Baby Cotton Candy? Baby Blossom? All PACS ponies. But Baby Cuddles, Half Note, Tiddly Winks are not PACS babies. Do they have a regular version? Yes. But if we expand the parameters beyond PACS ponies, technically D&W Baby Cuddles then qualifies as a NBBE Baby Cuddles. Again, blurry and unhelpful parameters.

They're both relics of a time when we knew not much. And now we know more, they should have disappeared. The reason they haven't is because ID sites still don't know what to do with these ponies or how to correct their timelines. And so it persists.

Why does it matter to me? Because misinformation hurts people. In the late 1990s International people got backlash for trying to correct DV's information, and were called scammers if they tried to sell something DV didn't acknowledge/misnamed. You said nobody calls me to task for using those terms (ironically in a post in which you are calling me to task for using them, heh), but I've been both threatened and called a wide range of names over the years. Setting up the website made me a target, although the reason I set it up was to counteract DV's refusal to correct information. I really never intended to, but it kind of happened that way.

But the thing is, standing up and sticking to the facts mean that now 90% of DV's myths are gone. More importantly, all the bad backlash has gone and we can now discuss it fairly politely in threads like this. I think that's gotta be a good thing, right?

People take most of that information for granted now, but I think that's also a good thing.

So to me this isn't about personal preference, but access to information. I feel like personal preference relates to how you term your own collection. Like if you want to make Moondancer a boy, or call Bubbles Snoodlepop, or any of those things. It's absolutely fine. I really don't care.

But when you're posting generically on a public forum where there may be members less informed than you, using incorrect terminology to me is a problem. And ditto on an ID site. Then you have a responsibility to be accurate. So those are the times I challenge the use of the terms.

I also feel like NBBE and NSS imply negative things about the sets in general, and that's why I stopped using them. They're a reminder of that time, which also makes me want to eradicate them for good.

If that's clear, then maybe we can move on.

[Leave a Whisper]

So, for clarity, Baby Lickety Split is a Play and Care Set Baby, a Beddy Bye Eye Baby and a First Tooth baby. Three separate things, all with their own clear set identifiers. So there is BBE Baby Lickety, FT Baby Lickety and PACS baby Lickety. There is NOT 'NBBE' Baby Lickety.

Hasbro didn't make 'non-' ponies.

Now I got that out of the way.

I have FIRST TOOTH baby Lickety Split. I also have PLAY AND CARE SET Baby Lickety Split MIB.
And I have a BEDDY BYE EYE one as well.

So that's three for me.

My sister has a loose PLAY AND CARE SET one. I am not sure if she has the others.

Trivia - in one pony comic, PLAY AND CARE SET Baby Lickety introduces FIRST TOOTH baby Lickety as her cousin

Clooooone Cousins.

PnC Lickety looks at BBE and says My! What big eyes you have!

The bettah to see you wif my dear. Replies BBE

And to FT Lickety: My what a big toof you have!

The bettah to nom you wif my dear. She says.

[Taffeta]

So, for clarity, Baby Lickety Split is a Play and Care Set Baby, a Beddy Bye Eye Baby and a First Tooth baby. Three separate things, all with their own clear set identifiers. So there is BBE Baby Lickety, FT Baby Lickety and PACS baby Lickety. There is NOT 'NBBE' Baby Lickety.

Hasbro didn't make 'non-' ponies.

Now I got that out of the way.

I have FIRST TOOTH baby Lickety Split. I also have PLAY AND CARE SET Baby Lickety Split MIB.
And I have a BEDDY BYE EYE one as well.

So that's three for me.

My sister has a loose PLAY AND CARE SET one. I am not sure if she has the others.

Trivia - in one pony comic, PLAY AND CARE SET Baby Lickety introduces FIRST TOOTH baby Lickety as her cousin

Clooooone Cousins.

PnC Lickety looks at BBE and says My! What big eyes you have!

The bettah to see you wif my dear. Replies BBE

And to FT Lickety: My what a big toof you have!

The bettah to nom you wif my dear. She says.

You're a crazy person.
Have a cookie

[Leave a Whisper]

So, for clarity, Baby Lickety Split is a Play and Care Set Baby, a Beddy Bye Eye Baby and a First Tooth baby. Three separate things, all with their own clear set identifiers. So there is BBE Baby Lickety, FT Baby Lickety and PACS baby Lickety. There is NOT 'NBBE' Baby Lickety.

Hasbro didn't make 'non-' ponies.

Now I got that out of the way.

I have FIRST TOOTH baby Lickety Split. I also have PLAY AND CARE SET Baby Lickety Split MIB.
And I have a BEDDY BYE EYE one as well.

So that's three for me.

My sister has a loose PLAY AND CARE SET one. I am not sure if she has the others.

Trivia - in one pony comic, PLAY AND CARE SET Baby Lickety introduces FIRST TOOTH baby Lickety as her cousin

Clooooone Cousins.

PnC Lickety looks at BBE and says My! What big eyes you have!

The bettah to see you wif my dear. Replies BBE

And to FT Lickety: My what a big toof you have!

The bettah to nom you wif my dear. She says.

You're a crazy person.
Have a cookie

Okay but only if you'll have one back.

[SkyCakes]

I have the BBE and the non BBE version of her. I dont mind her. She is cute.

[Lilja]

Spoiler

Firstly - logic. You've already demonstrated the problem with the terms. You've both said the terms are interchangeable with PACS or NSS and that they're not.

Magenta Posey, Truly, Cupcake are not Movie Star ponies. So NSS=/=Movie Star. But then if you expand it, we have multiple regular versions of Gusty, Cherries Jubilee and Lickety as well as Posey to factor in. I've seen all these described as NSS and also not described as NSS. Thus the term is unhelpful as it has blurred boundaries. It also ties them to the wrong timeline. The Wiki section on these is horrible because it's attempting to link them to the SS set, and as a result, ponies are missing.

With PACS, if NBBE=PACS, what about Baby Applejack? Baby Cotton Candy? Baby Blossom? All PACS ponies. But Baby Cuddles, Half Note, Tiddly Winks are not PACS babies. Do they have a regular version? Yes. But if we expand the parameters beyond PACS ponies, technically D&W Baby Cuddles then qualifies as a NBBE Baby Cuddles. Again, blurry and unhelpful parameters.

They're both relics of a time when we knew not much. And now we know more, they should have disappeared. The reason they haven't is because ID sites still don't know what to do with these ponies or how to correct their timelines. And so it persists.

Why does it matter to me? Because misinformation hurts people. In the late 1990s International people got backlash for trying to correct DV's information, and were called scammers if they tried to sell something DV didn't acknowledge/misnamed. You said nobody calls me to task for using those terms (ironically in a post in which you are calling me to task for using them, heh), but I've been both threatened and called a wide range of names over the years. Setting up the website made me a target, although the reason I set it up was to counteract DV's refusal to correct information. I really never intended to, but it kind of happened that way.

But the thing is, standing up and sticking to the facts mean that now 90% of DV's myths are gone. More importantly, all the bad backlash has gone and we can now discuss it fairly politely in threads like this. I think that's gotta be a good thing, right?

People take most of that information for granted now, but I think that's also a good thing.

So to me this isn't about personal preference, but access to information. I feel like personal preference relates to how you term your own collection. Like if you want to make Moondancer a boy, or call Bubbles Snoodlepop, or any of those things. It's absolutely fine. I really don't care.

But when you're posting generically on a public forum where there may be members less informed than you, using incorrect terminology to me is a problem. And ditto on an ID site. Then you have a responsibility to be accurate. So those are the times I challenge the use of the terms.

I also feel like NBBE and NSS imply negative things about the sets in general, and that's why I stopped using them. They're a reminder of that time, which also makes me want to eradicate them for good.

Sorry to hear you have negative feelings associated with these terms, but I think trying to eradicate them from the community won't work. My advice is aim to inform and complete people's knowledge where there is potential for misunderstanding. Not tell them they're wrong for using a non-official term which most collectors agree on what it means, and is easy for newcomers to learn and understand.

You have misunderstood our arguments if you think anyone is saying "NBBE" and "Play and Care Set" are 100% equivalent. They're not, but this is the impression newcomers might get when they're told "There is no such thing as a NBBE Baby, they are called Play and Care Set!" Even though what they were talking about was not the name of the set, but rather the type of pony. A lot of collectors mainly want to know which ponies exist for them to collect and may not care particulary which set a pony belongs to. (Nothing wrong with informing them about it, but try to see if that's really what they're asking for)

As MLP collectors we have always taken liberties in how we name and categorize things to make it easier to convey information to each other in ways Hasbro never intended us to do. I don't like or agree with everything the community has decided upon either, but some things I just have to roll with in order to exist within the community and not alienate people. I want this to be a fun hobby after all, so I try to just focus on the parts that make me happy while being understanding of others' viewpoints.