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Author Topic: Lil’ Cheese or Honey Pie?  (Read 467 times)

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Offline Mana Minori

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Lil’ Cheese or Honey Pie?
« on: April 30, 2020, 06:52:59 AM »
So the generation 4 cartoon has ended a few months ago, so I feel like I can discuss this without fear of spoilers for horse who haven’t seen it by now. In the season 9 final episode, it is shown that Pinkie Pie and Cheese Sandwich (a character voices and meant to be a pony version of Weird Al) had a baby pony together named “Lil’ Cheese”. However, with the many throwbacks that the writers have done throughout the series- many of which had been pulled from g1 (the Smooze, Gusty, Tirek, commander Firefly), I have to wonder if naming Pinkie Pie and Cheese’s baby “Honey Pie” after the g1 baby pony of the same name would have been more appropriate and yet another fitting reference to g1?

What do you guys think?
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Offline Shaz

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Re: Lil’ Cheese or Honey Pie?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2020, 08:37:56 AM »
Eh, I'm not big on G1 references in G4. Look what they did to the Smooze and Tirac; they became totally different characters who could easily have had different names. Plus it's so annoying when you're looking up MLP online and all you get is G4, e.g. the other day I was looking for the G1 episode Somnambula and ended with wall-to-wall Egyptian-style G4 pony.
But that's just my view as a grumpy G1 fan :lol: Others might feel differently.

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Re: Lil’ Cheese or Honey Pie?
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2020, 08:56:34 AM »
G1 should be G1, G4 should do its own thing and not need to reach back to G1, honestly. I agree with Shaz - I feel like G4 mostly trampled on the G1 references it used, and none of them were necessary if G4's world was as amazing and deep as people like to say it is vis a vis older gens.

So yeah. I see your point as the suggestion, but honestly...I'm happier when G4 is itself, and leaves G1 to itself. There's room enough for all the gens to do their own thing after all.

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Offline RoseNoire

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Re: Lil’ Cheese or Honey Pie?
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2020, 09:28:07 AM »
The g1 references could have been of better quality. Tirek and the Smooze were underwhelming and I would have prefered their existence if they didn't share the same name as their g1 counterpart. Though I'm fine with the refferences to Gusty and the two g3 fillies, those were neat and harmless.
I prefer Honey Pie as a name way more than the other, it sounds cuter.
I agree with each gen having their own identity, it lessens the redundancy. Though I'm fine with the rare wink to previous gens.

Offline Mana Minori

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Re: Lil’ Cheese or Honey Pie?
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2020, 10:13:36 AM »
Eh, I'm not big on G1 references in G4. Look what they did to the Smooze and Tirac; they became totally different characters who could easily have had different names. Plus it's so annoying when you're looking up MLP online and all you get is G4, e.g. the other day I was looking for the G1 episode Somnambula and ended with wall-to-wall Egyptian-style G4 pony.
But that's just my view as a grumpy G1 fan :lol: Others might feel differently.
I can see why you would be irritated, and I’m sorry that you are by it. As a fan of g1 and g4, (well, really all the gens), I quite like the many references and homage paid to the older gens in the newer, but I can just as easily see your frustrations on it maybe being excessive or character butchering when they go in different directions from the source material.

But to my knowledge (and someone correct me if I’m wrong), I don’t recall there being much done with G1 Honey Pie as a character, specifically- so I don’t think a name drop as a reference to a candy colored pony who appears on screen for all of 3 seconds would have been all that bad? At least compared to the other g1 references and characters who were much more prominent through g1, I mean....

Post Merge: April 30, 2020, 10:19:57 AM

G1 should be G1, G4 should do its own thing and not need to reach back to G1, honestly. I agree with Shaz - I feel like G4 mostly trampled on the G1 references it used, and none of them were necessary if G4's world was as amazing and deep as people like to say it is vis a vis older gens.

So yeah. I see your point as the suggestion, but honestly...I'm happier when G4 is itself, and leaves G1 to itself. There's room enough for all the gens to do their own thing after all.
well...ok yeah you aren’t wrong when you look at it that way. I don’t think that any other gen really references other gens as much as g4 does, and they did get pretty heavy handed on the references with later seasons. Soooo, yeaaaaah.....

But still....Lil’ Cheese just sounds like a stupid half baked name, whereas Honey Pie at least carries the Pie family surname to it, to make her sound like there was some thought out into the name.
(I have both, so it’s going to be canon in my toy herd, anyway. Pinkie will adopt Honey Pie as her own, so I decree) XD
« Last Edit: April 30, 2020, 10:19:57 AM by Mana Minori »
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Offline Mewtwofan1

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Re: Lil’ Cheese or Honey Pie?
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2020, 02:17:03 PM »
It would have been cool to name the kid honey pie. Lil’ cheese is cool too. But if you ask me? They missed the opportunity to name It cheesecake.
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Re: Lil’ Cheese or Honey Pie?
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2020, 02:23:35 PM »
I had figured "L'il Cheese" was just a nickname. My personal headcanon is that the baby's name is Cheesecake Pie. Or maybe Cheese and Onion Pie.
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Offline LadyAmalthea

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Re: Lil’ Cheese or Honey Pie?
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2020, 03:00:54 PM »
I haven't gotten as far as this in the series (we can't seem to get past the middle of season 2, since my son keeps wanting to go back and watch the first episode over again, and we watch them in order), but I think Cheese Curd would have been a good name! My husband and son got matching shirts at a cheese festival we went to when he was a baby that said 'Big Cheese' and 'Little Curd'...I totally get wanting to throw the pie reference in there, though. I guess Cheesecake would have been a good compromise.

I'm a G1 fan, but I don't know who Honey Pie is, so I'm guessing it's an obscure enough reference that I wouldn't have gotten the connection, but in general it's not a bad name for someone in the Pie family to have.

Offline Carrehz

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Re: Lil%u2019 Cheese or Honey Pie?
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2020, 07:30:14 PM »
I don't really care for G4 twisting around G1 things just for a weird sort of "fanservice". (It's not that I don't like these sort of things, it's just how G4 did it...) And I'm not a FiM thing so I don't really care what any of the chars are called... and reused names annoy me in *any* generation... But, that said, Honey Pie IS a cuter name than Lil' Cheese. :B

Although it does remind me of how I've never been a fan of "Pie" being treated as Pinkie's surname. Ponies with full names weirds me out.
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Offline MJNSEIFER

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Re: Lil%u2019 Cheese or Honey Pie?
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2020, 10:05:31 PM »
Honey Pie sounds more like a pony name to me (that being said, Cheese Sandwich always sounded like an odd name in the show anyway...), and a kind of callback to a previous generation is a nice idea, as I do love it when the "current" (or whatever you want to call FiM now) references the "old", or at least I usually do.  Names like Cheesecake is good too, though.

On the topic of them referencing G1 (or any previous generation)
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Spoiler tagged, because it's long and only partly on topic.

Quote from: Carrehz

Although it does remind me of how I've never been a fan of "Pie" being treated as Pinkie's surname. Ponies with full names weirds me out.
Yeah, I can understand that - pony "full" names are inconsistent anyway, and kind of go all over the place when they try to hard to make them work as family names (or marital names.)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2020, 10:09:10 PM by MJNSEIFER »
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Offline WaterDraw

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Re: Lil’ Cheese or Honey Pie?
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2020, 02:48:11 AM »
Honey Pie would've been a cuter name, although I def agree with the idea of Cheesecake as her name!
I don't mind other gens using prior names as long as the character still looks like the original in some form. Like for example if they reused Bowtie's name but then made her look like an entirely new pony, I wouldn't be stoked because that just feels lazy to me.
I don't really like how G4 did callbacks to other gens personally. Like, a lot of them just feel pandering and not handled well at all. I'll never get over how badly they botched the breezies.
I was excited that them maybe bringing Tirek back would shut up the people who say g1 was all rainbows and butterflies with no fantasy elements at all, but he just ended up being a lame villain. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but they didn't even bring back the coolest part of him for me; the fact that he enslaved the ponies and made them carry his chariot! Like that was just so evil but also wicked and..
Ah, I'm getting off topic.

Basically, having her name be Honey Pie wouldn't bother me so long as they kept the design similar to the original pony. The original baby didn't seem to have much use anyway so it'd be a great way to put an old character into new use!
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Re: Lil’ Cheese or Honey Pie?
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2020, 07:31:21 AM »
I was excited that them maybe bringing Tirek back would shut up the people who say g1 was all rainbows and butterflies with no fantasy elements at all,

It seems pretty much like those derogatory remarks were designed to distract people from realising actually G4 is all about rainbows and butterflies (and parties and superficial clothing memes and all kinds of things on that line) because then it would mean fans (predominately male at this point) accepting that they really liked something that touched on all those aspects they look down on as 'girly'. In fact, there are plenty of guys (esp. in anime communities) who like really cutesy, 'girly' type things, and there's nothing wrong with liking that (depending how you throw it at other people), but the whole thing seems to be a giant exercise in validation for G4 male fans, most of which have probably never seen any of G1.

For the record, this derogatory idea of 'girly' is a major social problem in itself, but that's another topic.

There's also nothing wrong with G4 having all of those elements by the way. It's just hypocritical to criticise another generation for them when they're far more prominent in G4.

I think it can be fine to have a nod to past gens - like "Starswirl the bearded" or maybe "Gusty" as mythical historical figures. That's fine. It almost indicates that connection to older MLP. But reinventing new versions of old villains (in a very lame way, as has been said) gives this impression of "we can do it better than they did in the original, look how great we are"...which also conceals the reality of "we have none of our own ideas any more, what can we pilfer from G1?" Which is a bit annoying, especially as it occurs alongside promoting and encouraging G1 bashing in the fandom with this suggestion G4 is the ultimate pony generation (it isn't. It's a perfectly valid pony generation, but like all pony gens, has its good and bad and should not be used as a filter through which to judge things that predate it.)

Not that I'm a huge fan of the G1 cartoon, the comics are and always were way more intricate and more appealing to me...but I grew to be much more appreciative of what G1 stories did get animated after watching G4 butcher stuff and the fandom/writers pat themselves on the back for making everything trite, superficial and memeworthy.

That said I do like both Sunset Shimmer and Starlight Glimmer as characters. But both of them are original to G4, even if the name Sunset Shimmer is almost certainly borrowed from Sunshimmer.

Honey Pie was in the G1 UK comic. She's a childhood pony of my sister's so I remember that. I don't remember her character as strongly as some of the others but she definitely was included.

A final note - G3 has a Bow Tie that looks totally different from G1 Bow Tie but has the same name. She's actually really pretty. Though I grant you, they didn't try and rely on that past nod to promote her, which is probably the main difference between G3 and G4 recycled names/concepts.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2020, 07:33:22 AM by Taffeta »
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Offline Carrehz

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Re: Lil%u2019 Cheese or Honey Pie?
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2020, 02:26:50 PM »
what annoys me is that FiM recycles stuff from G1 "in name only". Like, we've got this thing called the Smooze, but it's basically just Flubber. And they seem to do it as some sort of... low-effort fanservice? not sure how to put it. like, the G4 comic seems to have dropped a lot of G1 refs in, and the way they do it feels like a little nod to the franchise's origins. Which I like. FiM is just like... "Oh people like Tirac. Let's make a villain with the same name except not really cause they didn't even bother to spell it right and just.... completely ignore WHY people like this character". I dunno how to explain it.

But reinventing new versions of old villains (in a very lame way, as has been said) gives this impression of "we can do it better than they did in the original, look how great we are"...which also conceals the reality of "we have none of our own ideas any more, what can we pilfer from G1?"

Also this.
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Offline MJNSEIFER

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Re: Lil%u2019 Cheese or Honey Pie?
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2020, 07:52:37 PM »
what annoys me is that FiM recycles stuff from G1 "in name only". Like, we've got this thing called the Smooze, but it's basically just Flubber. And they seem to do it as some sort of... low-effort fanservice? not sure how to put it.
Yeah, that's probably why I have a problem with that, and not with the Mane Six being different to the pre-G4 ponies - they aren't meant to be direct references, they are new ponies, but things like The Smooze feel like they could have been put in there as an intentional shout-out (no idea if they were), so it feels like they could at least be closer to what they were referencing, even if they still go their own way with them...?

Like the origins of The Smooze could be different as G4 is not G1, but they could still do more to make it remind us of G1, other than the name.

I mean if they had still rewritten Tirek in places to fit the G4 world (like how they made Scorpan his brother, rather than some human prince he transformed and enslaved), but still made him act somewhat like G1 Tirek, and not some guy standing about with his mouth open (I know I've already used that one), then they could have "gotten away with it" in my eyes.
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Offline Carrehz

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Re: Lil’ Cheese or Honey Pie?
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2020, 07:57:12 PM »
Yeah, that's it exactly. If you're gonna reuse something - obviously we don't want it to be exactly the same, that'd be boring - but what's the point of just doing an "in name only" thing? Then it just feels like they designed a character and couldn't come up with a name for them, or something.
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