Does anyone else have MLP Merch checklists?

[Esbayne]

I found out recently that MLP Merch now has checklists and wantlists you can make that encompass ALL gens and even a bit of merch and stuff. (Just missing the McD's and Pretty Ponies for actual brushables now as far as I could tell but I asked about that, they said soon)

I've been looking for a site that does this for a while and was pretty stoked to find that out! It's also a good way to easily count how many ponies you have. I was thinking about it too and it's a really cool way to show off who you have in your collection to others, I think, more intricately.

Does anyone else have a checklist for their ponies, too? Doesn't have to be MLP Merch! I'd love to see!
(mines in my sig!)

[Taffeta]

I have a lot of issues with MLPMerch's G1 database. Most especially the conflated International Nirvana section (which was flagged up as a problem at launch) and the fact that a lot of the data errors in that category (which have been pointed out to them a long time ago) still remain. A note saying some ponies might be in the wrong categories is a lazy fix and a poor substitute for actually working to move the ponies into the right categories.

Until they properly sort out those sections, it's not a site that ought to be used for non-US collection collation.

As someone who's spent a lot of time making sure accurate information is openly and freely available for many of these categories, the lack of will to make the Merch database accurate is frustrating to me.

Since the errors have been pointed out, it's hard to know why they're not being fixed. Since the information is freely available online to correct the errors, it's hard to know why it's difficult to verify. And if the problem is a matter of time, then the section should not have gone live, or should have been taken down until it could be properly fixed and accurate to the benefit of the whole community. It's been like this such a long time now that it's hard to justify why these problems still remain.


Even the US section has some problems - that's not a US Lickety Split under year 3.

[SpacePinto]

I try to avoid making checklists because I always fail to complete them but I can't rest as long as they still have at list one item left on them, and sometimes I spend years with unfinished checklists thinking to myself that maybe tomorrow I will find time to tick off at least some of the remaining boxes.

[tailrustedtealeaf]

I've got one linked in my signature. I have some beef with the UK ponies and such being labelled as Nirvana because I...don't see them as Nirvana but I appreciate the rest of it.
They're working on a G1 database edit that I agreed to help beta test a bit to see if it worked (because my checklist is so long and bulky ha) but I don't know how much they want to keep secret.

[Taffeta]

The big problem is the number of errors that have been there since the start and are still there despite notification.

Unless these are eradicated from whatever beta you're talking about TRTL, it really doesn't change anything. And if they are, that's great, but it's a long time overdue given that a promise was made back at launch that those issues would be looked at and fixed. To date only some of the obviously major ones (like including ponies that don't exist) have been tackled.

I would rather they had taken their time, listened to initial feedback from international ponypeople about this problem, had taken the Nirvana section down (as we asked) to fix it... and ended by having an accurate database online whose information can be robustly trusted.

Speaking as someone who has spent 20 years trying to eradicate some of the misconceptions the community invented about international ponies, the MLPMerch database as it currently stands is not helping international pony collectors sort out their collections. It's part of the problem, not the solution.

[Safflower]

I made a checklist for fun a few weeks ago out of quarantine boredom, but I haven't touched it since. I remember the original thread here that announced the database and the checklist features - lots of people pointed out the issues and they said they would fix them. That was a long time ago... I'm surprised nothing has been done. It's fun to play around with, but it's not something you can use as a source of information since parts of it are straight up incorrect. It's a shame all of the wrong stuff is still up, I'm sure some people have probably taken it for fact. There's no warning that it isn't correct either.

This post on their website makes it seem like they are just merging all the sections together?? That seems... interesting.

[Taffeta]

In fairness to them, they DID do some fixes - they took down the term NSS, they removed the imaginary 'NSS Paradise' and they corrected the picture of Posey from y3 which was originally in error. So it's not that they have done nothing, just that a lot of things raised with them have not been done, and the Nirvana/UK/Euro thing has not been done either.

It launched a long time ago, so from launch to now it has been encouraging people to collate their collections based on incorrect and incomplete data. I am frustrated they didn't take that section down, work on it, then put it back up with the corrections done - because that is what the European collectors asked them to do.

 In a sense with MLPMerch, which is likely to be trusted by G4 fans branching out into G1 and others, it's even MORE important to be correct, as there will be people using it who may NOT know that there are mistakes, and thus will carry those errors forward.

Let;s not forget most of those errors existed in the first place because they were endorsed by trusted sites like Dream Valley and not corrected for long periods after they were pointed out...and some of them are still being endorsed by sites like Strawberry Reef and to some extent, the Wiki (although that is better)...which then become sources for sites like MLPMerch and just perpetuate it on to another group of new collectors.

In terms of the reworking, I actually agree with merging the whole lot together because it makes more sense to remove regional categories rather than use them arbitrarily. I mean, a person in the UK might have Honeycomb and Cherries Jubilee with the exact same backcards from childhood, and they shouldn't need to intuitively know to go to two completely different parts of the website to add them to their checklist. So it makes more sense.

Nirvana as in the proper variant side of Nirvana may be better off separated but I'm not sure, depends how they want to do it really.

[Ossie]

Hey all, just quickly jumping in here to acknowledge that the G1 nirvana/international database is indeed not at the level that it should be. That's why, quite some time ago, we decided to revamp the way all G1 ponies will be listed. Part of this is merging all US-based releases and region exclusive releases into a single database, as well as giving more options for browsing, like by country and year of release. A mush-have for this project is also to not interfere with all ponies already in checklists and wishlists.
This update took much longer than we've hoped, but we were (and still are) at a point in our lives where we can't spend a lot of spare time on this project. In the mean time, we decided to keep the G1 nirvana database up as it is, with some major issues fixed, and an included notification that there are issues left.
Luckily, as of this week we're in the testing phase of the upcoming change, and are aiming to realize the actual merge in the next 10 days or so.

[Taffeta]

Thank you for the update, Ossie.

Since you acknowledge that the Nirvana section is not fit for purpose, your decision to keep it online all this time is a difficult one for me to fathom. At launch we made it very clear why it was a problem and what the problems were, and your fixes so far, as you acknowledge, do not go far enough.]

I feel very strongly about this as it is much harder to remove a misconception than it is to place one. As I said before, the reason many of these myths are still with us is because Kim (Dream Valley) refused to take them down for a very long time.

 Important and influential sites have a particular duty to have correct information. There's no reason to expect most people who use the Merch database to know which ponies the disclaimer refers to (as you don't specify), and many won't care. They will just take your content as fact and that erodes our efforts even more.

To end on a positive, I do think it's a good idea to merge the databases to make it a more comprehensive resource. And I still believe it CAN be a great site for collectors to use. But right now it isn't one (at least as far as G1 is concerned). I am concerned that even if all the web coding and structure or format of the site becomes more combined and comprehensive, there's no indication of how the mistakes are going to be ironed out and removed - or if the actual pony information is going to be addressed at all. If that's not going to happen, to be frank, the database should just be offlined until it can be.

[Ossie]

We initially thought of that option, but decided to outweigh having the database available for those who want to keep track of that collection over removing it after launch. Whether you agree or disagree with that choice is a matter of opinion. However, what we did do, is point out clearly on all pages in our 'nirvana' database, that it is subject to mistakes and is a work in progress.
And yes, with the update we went through the G1 data as well. It's not just the code and cosmetics, but we certainly fixed data-related mistakes too. Not saying it will be 100% error free, but we gave it the proper attention after the feedback we received.

[Taffeta]

In the interests of information integrity, here is the original thread discussion about the launch of the new site in 2018 (October).

http://mlparena.com/index.php/topic,393378.30.html

I post the whole link so people can see all of the discussions, not specific sections of it. Transparency is very important.

Now to go back to my key points, Katrine in that thread highlighted a number of structural issues with the Nirvana section, and explained why it wasn't a quick fix and why it should be taken down and revised.

We also made it very clear that we were there as resources to help if we were needed - but none of us were asked about international MLP information ahead of your launch, which might have resolved all these problems.

Are you using international people to beta your new database to check the intel is correct? (No, I'm not volunteering, I'm just curious).

Unfortunately most of the issues raised in the above linked thread (most ably by Katrine) have not been dealt with yet. Maybe your new update will deal with those, but it doesn't change the fact that you let bad information fly for 18 months despite being told clearly why this was a bad thing to do and why it was detrimental.

I very much doubt enough people had collections on the site at the point of launch for you to have many problems had you taken the Nirvana database down in October 2018.  I suspect there are other reasons you didn't take it down which have nothing at all to do with users and everything to do with just not wanting to.

And if you had given it the proper attention after the feedback you received, then we would not need to be having this conversation in 2020, because the database would have been offlined and we'd be eagerly awaiting its shiny new relaunch.

Just a question - are you using my website in this relaunch or have you found other resources instead for the UK stuff?

[Ossie]

Sorry for the late reply, but let me try to answer your questions.
Part of the update is also some re-structuring and making sets more accessible. Whether that's the exact way you and Katrine want to see it, I don't know.
In our test group we have people from Twitter and Facebook who wanted to join. I believe we have 1 or 2 people in that group that collect Nirvana ponies, but it will probably not cover all countries. I have some remaining questions that I will be posting in the Nirvana section later.
For our sources we did indeed use your website, as well as many other places of course.

[Taffeta]

It's all right, easter happens

In terms of structure, I won't speak for Katrine but in my case all I'm looking for is something that doesn't mislead the users. How you achieve that is up to you...so long as the information is accurate, that's all I ask.

I'm sure you know this, but people who collect Nirvana ponies are not the same as people who are experts on International pony releases. One does not indicate knowledge of the other. I asked if you had people who were experts on international releases involved in your beta. It sounds like that is something you could look into.

Your priority should not be Nirvana, it should be mainstream ponies across the whole world, which includes but is not limited to the UK and Europe. If you cannot beta that, your site will retain mistakes. It's unavoidable. But more people will have mainstream ponies from Europe in their collection than OOAK Nirvana ponies, and will want to catalogue them. This is the problem you have right now - that side of your information currently is gappy and inaccurate.

If your questions are about Nirvana obviously they belong in the Nirvana, but if they are about ponies sold normally in Europe, UK, etc, then that's not Nirvana and should be asked in the corral.

The problem with the mainstream ID sites, as I mentioned in the original thread, is that all use DV's US "year" system (as your site does currently) and as a result none have successfully integrated UK, European, and other ponies into the US 'year' system. This includes the Wiki, Strawberry Reef, etc - all of which are still full of mistakes (albeit the Wiki people are slowly trying to fix some of this, much still remains, and SR is abandoned, so will never update).

The reason it doesn't work is because the idea that the US had some unique market that was added into by Europe is rubbish, and only worked in 1996 when international ponies were barely known about. Unfortunately people's blind adoration of DV has led them to imitate its format, even though DV ultimately removed the international sections because of...yep, gross inaccuracies.

The thing is that pony releases have some originality and lot of overlap between countries, and separating the two means either putting international ponies into the wrong categories/years (for example, Wiki with the Movie Stars and the German Rainbows), assigning them to the wrong locations (like white Tootsie in the UK on SR) or by making people in non US countries jump between two databases to collate their childhood collections.  As much as 70% of the 'US' line was available in the UK, in parts of Europe and in Australia and South Africa, to name a few places. The problem is it's not the SAME 70%, so you can see why it can't work.

Rght now this is how your site operates, and one reason why it still has so many errors. I think that is what Katrine meant when she talked about the structure, rather than talking about the design itself. Integrating the databases should help with that a lot, though - so long as the resultant data is robust and accurate. That part is why you need people who know about international releases to beta your work before it goes live. You needed it before, and didn't ask for it. You need it now as well. Please, ask for it.

As for using my site - I hope that means that after a year and a half you are also now willing to consider my constructive criticism where you ignored it in October 2018. We don't need another site putting about bad information. I still believe the Merch database can be and should be brilliant, but stuff has to change. I really hope the revamp will be that change.

[bright rabbit 1]

I do, only for G1s