The Toys That Made Us

[Taffeta]

Oh, I wasn't trying to say Summer wasn't allowed to dislike G2.  It's just that she was holding one in her hand when she was talking about G2.  It just made me think that some editing happened that didn't give her complete thoughts on the subject.  I also think that a lot more interviews would have to happen for them to convey the full story of G2.

An A&E Documentary might be more nuanced and intriguing.   

Or as suggested before, we could do our own.

Maybe it's G2 that we really need a fan documentary on. We certainly have enough experts lurking around these parts, and it would help to put the record straight.

Pity YT is messing up so much with its categories.

[Carrehz]

I'm 300000% in favour of a G2 documentary. G1 and G4 have had their fair share of documentaries (idk about G3?)... It's about time G2 got a turn.

[MJNSEIFER]

Not sure if I'll watch this or not, though I might at least check out the scene with Lauren's letter as I like that she's a fan who got to do her own version (I know that she's not the first, but I love when that happens) - though it probably would have fitted in better on a G4 documentary or a brony documentary.

It would be good for G2 to get a documentary, so if anyone here does it, I wish them look on it (I respect and like the look of G2, but I wouldn't be much help.)

What I'd love to happen is if there was a documentary that covered all generations, and was fair to all of them, showing they all had merits, and a place in the toyline and the fandom.  The bronies should still be included and discussed, as they are part of the fandom in general (regardless of how many of them see it like this), but focus on the whole fandom, and the ways we ultimately unite - basically don't hype the bronies up, and don't act like they were the first time MLP had adult male fans, but don't ignore them either.

I just feel like all generations should get praise, and be able to clear up some misconceptions about them, and making it clear that as good as G4 is (in my and other's opinion) it did not "save the franchise" by "doing something different" - it used the formula of the previous generations in one (regardless of whether it meant to.)

[Taffeta]

Yeah, I think it was the overarching narrative aspect.

To be honest I didn't/am not able to properly understand that because I didn't grow up in the US and don't know how things worked over there. I do know there were backcard stories, though. Some books. And for a while the animation, although it stopped and started.

Because we had the comics here, we had that overarching narrative aspect, although it was also highly fluid, introducing and retiring ponies as they came out while keeping some of the same locations and introducing some new ones (like Tropical Isle etc) when necessary.

I think the bronies have had far too much of the media attention, to be honest. All generations, yes. Bronies, no. Documentaries about the ponies/toyline and not about the fanbases would be a nice change.

Also without Lauren talking about G1 would be nice. She is absolutely allowed to talk about G4, she is basically it's mother, but let's not have her as the opinion on G1 stuff any more. If there needs to be opinion on G1, let's spend more time with the people who worked on G1's animation, either writing or acting or whatever.

 Just an idea...

[MJNSEIFER]

For those confused, I deleted my question about storylines, because misremembered the topic as having Arena memebers saying "We didn't need a storyline back in the day!" as it were, but the closest I found were people in the documentary saying that pre-G4 had no story.  So I got that wrong, sorry about that.

I do personally (and I emphasise "personally") think bronies should get at least a small section, because it was a big and nostalgic aspect of the fandom for some people (though I may be the only one of those people here), but not treat them as the main focus.  I respect your opinion, though.

I guess it would be a nice change to focus on the actual toyline/franchise and not the fans though.

[Zapper]

I do personally (and I emphasise "personally") think bronies should get at least a small section, because it was a big and nostalgic aspect of the fandom for some people (though I may be the only one of those people here), but not treat them as the main focus.  I respect your opinion, though.

Personally, I am just so bored of the MLP fandom getting split into "oldhead, pink-loving pony mommies" and bronies. As if new fans can't like G1-3 and old fans can't like G4. Blah. I wish we could move on.

Female Transformers fans did get ZERO representation in the TF episode. She-Ra fans weren't even allowed to talk in the He-Man ep. So why bronies? Because pop culture gives a damn about them but female fans of something traditionally male are always just "shrieking fangirls".
Maybe it's time for female fans to segregate and give us a silly fan-name. I have always championed "Transisters", "G.I. Janes" and "He-Man-Shes"
Doesn't sound whack at all.

[Taffeta]

Zapper, if you suggest pegasisters I will throw fakies at you. You have been warned.

The way I feel about the brony publicity thing is that it's worn, over, done with.

I have some issues with the pink loving mummy old gen stereotype as well - I won't argue with the 'old' in context, but as a kid I hated pink, abseiled my ponies out of windows and had them fighting zombies, and I don't have or want kids. I felt a bit like the documentary comments about RaMC imagined fragile little darlings in the eighties...I never saw it in the eighties, but I would have loved it for sure since my ponies were far more concerned with rescuing each other from zombie overlords than they were having tea with flower fairies.

I think the problem is as Zapper says, these indentured stereotypes. And that isn't all on the G4 community, but what has happened in my view is that any other kind of MLP fan is no longer recognised. Summer was on the documentary because she wrote a book or two about them - it never mentioned there that she was a pony fan, only that Lauren Faust (the creator of G4) was, if I remember right. Which would mean the only 'fan opinion' the show consulted - according to them - was coincidentally (as they point out) the creator of G4. Which has to be wrong on so many levels it would be better not to talk to any fans at all.

I am not actually bothered about fans in general being included on TV shows because every fan has a different experience and nobody's view is more valid than anyone else's about what makes the collectable special. But the brony thing is the ONLY voice that is ever really given time and space like this in pony terms.

It's as though there's a belief that the first ever male pony fans happened in G4 - well, they didn't. It's as though MLP didn't have adult fans until G4. Well, they did. It's as though G4 created a MLP following - well, it both did and it didn't, depending on your angle, but it didn't invent the idea of a MLP fan community.

And it has had more than enough air time already. I understand that not all bronies are bad people, or crazy, rude, memeish etc, but that's the public face bronyism has also given the world. No attempt in any of these documentaries have tried to mediate that image, either.

I would like to see a documentary that completely ignores their existence for another reason, too. FIM was not created to randomly esnare young males into watching a show for little girls. It was created to get little girls (and boys) watching MLP, buying toys, wanting merchandise and so on and so forth. Instead of looking at that angle of it, though, the documentary mostly focused on the adult fanbase...once more reinforcing the idea that that is the 'target' audience for some reason.

So yeah. Enough already with the brony rubbish.

[MJNSEIFER]

Personally, I am just so bored of the MLP fandom getting split into "oldhead, pink-loving pony mommies" and bronies. As if new fans can't like G1-3 and old fans can't like G4. Blah. I wish we could move on.

I've never felt that bronies and non-bronies should be separated really.  Ultimately the only thing that separates them is whether or not they view themselves as "bronies" - the whole "you don't have to be a brony to like ponies" thing.  Basically, we can be bronies or not, it's our choice personally.  That's how I think it should go (this is not arguing, mostly agreeing and explaining view on it - just in case it comes out wrong.)

My reasoning for having all fans included was to show that we really aren't that different, a brony or a non-brony can like as much of the franchise as they choose to.  So yeah, a way of moving on, and actually having the kind of "harmony" that the ponies would want us to have (if they were real.)

I definitely don't think bronies should be the only voice of the fans, and I get it, they've been shown a lot, but I'd like us (me and other bronies) to be shown as "part of the fandom" - a subsection, if you like, at the very least, rather than being a separate entity, because I don't really see us as one in the end - we all love ponies (and those that don't respect other generations might be fading?  It doesn't seem as obnoxious as it used to be, or maybe I just don't look at them anymore?  I know it can still happen.)

And yeah, definitely don't imply the bronies or any adults are the target audience, but it's at least good to show, in my opinion, that all generations are well done enough to appeal to all ages (something that some bronies fail to do, and I agree it's annoying.)

So yeah, if it was a fandom based documentary at least, don't overhype the bronies, but don't leave us out either - show us as part of the fandom, or a segment of it or whatever.  Focus on what unites us, not what separates us.

So yeah. Enough already with the brony rubbish.

Ouch!  Right in the nostalgia...    That aside, I do get what you're saying.  (Please let me know if I am going out of hand with this - I don't want to get another thread closed.)

[Khoufu]

My two minor gripes:
-"Every generation had a TV show." Well G2 didn't, and was G3 on TV or just a bunch of specials?
-"G2 was dead by 199X." I forgot what year they said, but they didn't mention that it had any amount of success outside of the US. That said, I would have liked to see some mention of Nirvana or tying back to the Transformers episode when they mentioned Hasbro trading rights with Takara.

[Taffeta]

People have different connitations for the term brony, so I am prefacing this post with the disclaimer that when I use it here I am not talking about the integrated people or people who are G4 fans who choose to use the term to identify themselves. I'm talking about the bad bronies.

Although there was a pony community long before G4, there is an attitude from the FIM fandom (aspects of it anyway) that MLP was first meaningful when G4 happened. I wouldn't care about that at all if that wasn't the narrative also being fed into documentaries and shows and articles - that this is a "good thing", when for a lot of us it hasn't been that way at all.

 I am fed up with the saccharin back-slapping affirmation type documentary inserts that basically laugh about it all and how brony is a great/random/lol/unexpected phenomenon. All this media attention is like giving sweets to a naughty child to keep them quiet. It makes the behaviour continue, because there is both affirmation and reward - here in the form of media attention.

Basically bronies have had too much attention telling them that  their convictions are right and their behaviour is acceptable. Older generation fans (especially G3 fans) have seen their favourites denigrated for brony amusement with no chance to put a different perspective out there. G2 has been basically erased from existence for 'not having a tv show.' It's not only had a permanent impact on how people outside view My Little Pony, but also how they view us as fans of MLP.

Obviously all of the negative reflects on the good G4 fans (guys and girls) as well. So long as media give attention and support to the brony concept without acknowledging that they're not representative of everyone, the whole perception will remain screwed.

I don't like FIM but I don't hate G4 and I even have maybe 80 brushables (mostly not M6). But G4 fandom is also always in terms of the show, which then leads to backdating comparisons to what earlier shows did, which leads to the rubbish about G2 = Tales and so on and so forth, completely ignoring that MLP was made originally in a time when cartoons existed to sell toys, not when franchises centred on a TV show that also had toys (a more recent trend). According to this modern retcon of what a pony fan is, I'm not a pony fan any more. I'm just someone who likes pony toys. For me that's all levels of wrong, because MLP began with toys.

On the subject of the divide - that also wasn't made here. When G4 came out, everything was super inclusive. The divide was made on the other side of the wall, when the compulsive need to trash everything and everyone pre-G4 began to happen. None of us ever wanted a divide, but protecting spaces from spammy and abusive trolls became imperative else this community and others would have ceased to exist.

Though I still maintain fandom and fan opinion is not needed in a documentary about a toy.

[Cheshire_Raptor]

It's as though there's a belief that the first ever male pony fans happened in G4 - well, they didn't. It's as though MLP didn't have adult fans until G4. Well, they did. It's as though G4 created a MLP following - well, it both did and it didn't, depending on your angle, but it didn't invent the idea of a MLP fan community.

I thought they were talking about fans of the SHOW not the actual ponies themselves. They made a big deal about adult men liking cartoons.

Because apparently they know nothing of anime....which isn't just cartoons.

[Leave a Whisper]

For those confused, I deleted my question about storylines, because misremembered the topic as having Arena memebers saying "We didn't need a storyline back in the day!" as it were, but the closest I found were people in the documentary saying that pre-G4 had no story.  So I got that wrong, sorry about that.

I do personally (and I emphasise "personally") think bronies should get at least a small section, because it was a big and nostalgic aspect of the fandom for some people (though I may be the only one of those people here), but not treat them as the main focus.  I respect your opinion, though.

I guess it would be a nice change to focus on the actual toyline/franchise and not the fans though.

No. They should not. One as Taffeta pointed out, they have had enough media attention.

Two, a documentary should focus on the toys, toons, merch, history, creators and designers, not ANY of the fans.

It'd be just as stupid and nonsensical as a Rock n Roll documentary focusing more on groupies, roadies and super fans instead of the band's history and the music they made.

[Zapper]

I had a super long reply but it's just not worth it. I have made my feelings about the entire brony separation thing super obvious in the past.

Zapper, if you suggest pegasisters I will throw fakies at you. You have been warned.

That's what boggles my mind, actually! Female FiM fans feeling excluded from bronies within their own fandom, so they had to split themselves again into male FiM fan/female FiM fan. Instead of just going by "fan" or something more provocative: ORIGINAL TARGET AUDIENCE
Proof that "bro-ny" merely refers to ones sex and isn't needed because male G1-G3 fans have always existed and will continue to exist. Male G4 fans are not better or cooler than them. Not even by 20%
I am female and I like Star Wars and Transformers. So what.

Which brings me to a cool female Star Wars fandom name! XX-Wing! Let's make it happen. Then male Star Wars fans will scramble to call themselves "He-woks" or something like that. In fact... I'll call them all He-woks from this day forth.

[Taffeta]

I had a super long reply but it's just not worth it. I have made my feelings about the entire brony separation thing super obvious in the past.

Aw, no rant? Disappointed...

Zapper, if you suggest pegasisters I will throw fakies at you. You have been warned.

That's what boggles my mind, actually! Female FiM fans feeling excluded from bronies within their own fandom, so they had to split themselves again into male FiM fan/female FiM fan. Instead of just going by "fan" or something more provocative: ORIGINAL TARGET AUDIENCE
Proof that "bro-ny" merely refers to ones sex and isn't needed because male G1-G3 fans have always existed and will continue to exist. Male G4 fans are not better or cooler than them. Not even by 20%

 

I remember chatting regularly with some upstanding male fans in the distant dusty past...guys like Steamer who are long since gone from the community but one of the nicest people you'd ever see. And there are plenty of old school guy pony fans still around, like Al etc.

The issue is when something shady goes down on the other side of the fence and it then reflects negatively on those guys - who have been pony fans before 'brony', who aren't crazy or creepy, and who then end up feeling even more uncomfortable or judged for their fandom. I remember this being discussed at least once in the not so distant past. It makes me think for all brony has affected me as a fan of MLP, it's got to be tons worse for the original pony guys.

[Zapper]

I had a super long reply but it's just not worth it. I have made my feelings about the entire brony separation thing super obvious in the past.

Aw, no rant? Disappointed...

Yeah, I need to be more positive on here. That's why I have become a MLP:PL advocate Thinking of our fan-name right now... mhh, we need to separate ourselves from the Bronies that hate PL. Maybe pro-lifers? Nah, too dark and political. Lifesavers?