The Toys That Made Us

[Taffeta]

I had a super long reply but it's just not worth it. I have made my feelings about the entire brony separation thing super obvious in the past.

Aw, no rant? Disappointed...

Yeah, I need to be more positive on here. That's why I have become a MLP:PL advocate Thinking of our fan-name right now... mhh, we need to separate ourselves from the Bronies that hate PL. Maybe pro-lifers? Nah, too dark and political. Lifesavers?

Suggest the Splat Squad.

[MJNSEIFER]

People have different connitations for the term brony, so I am prefacing this post with the disclaimer that when I use it here I am not talking about the integrated people or people who are G4 fans who choose to use the term to identify themselves. I'm talking about the bad bronies.

Understandable.

Although there was a pony community long before G4, there is an attitude from the FIM fandom (aspects of it anyway) that MLP was first meaningful when G4 happened. I wouldn't care about that at all if that wasn't the narrative also being fed into documentaries and shows and articles - that this is a "good thing", when for a lot of us it hasn't been that way at all.

Agree completely, it was always meaningful.  Even as someone who for the most part saw G4 first, I could tell when I saw them that the previous generations have meaning.  I definitely don't agree with official places acting like it was a fact that G4 was the one that made it good or meaningful, or whatever - it was always this to different people in different ways, and for me all generations have meaning.

I am fed up with the saccharin back-slapping affirmation type documentary inserts that basically laugh about it all and how brony is a great/random/lol/unexpected phenomenon. All this media attention is like giving sweets to a naughty child to keep them quiet. It makes the behaviour continue, because there is both affirmation and reward - here in the form of media attention.

I see what you're getting at about the naughty child metaphor - I also feel that bronies shouldn't really be treated as a phenomenon because we (me and other bronies) aren't really.  Going off topic, but I'm cool with being self-mocking about it, but at the same time we don't need to be treated as "stand out" as we seem to be - another reason, in my opinion to see them (or at least the good ones) as part of the fandom, albeit one with its own name, rather than a separate fandom (which is why I'd include them in a fandom-documentary.)

Basically bronies have had too much attention telling them that  their convictions are right and their behaviour is acceptable. Older generation fans (especially G3 fans) have seen their favourites denigrated for brony amusement with no chance to put a different perspective out there. G2 has been basically erased from existence for 'not having a tv show.' It's not only had a permanent impact on how people outside view My Little Pony, but also how they view us as fans of MLP.

G3 is my favorite generation, and the opinion is shared by my closest friend in the fandom (by his own choice, he is not a brony) so I am very aware of how the bad bronies degrade the early generations, often in very unfair ways (G3 seems to get treated the worst - which makes no sense to me, as the cartoon was ultimately not that different to G4 format wise... oh yeah, they've likely never actually watched G3, based on the things they get wrong.)  I agree that they shouldn't be given the idea that this behavior is correct, and an opportunity for the earlier gens to get some deserved praise is something that should definitely happen (something that I am working on in at least two ways.)

Obviously all of the negative reflects on the good G4 fans (guys and girls) as well. So long as media give attention and support to the brony concept without acknowledging that they're not representative of everyone, the whole perception will remain screwed.

Very good point!  This is pretty much what I was going for in a sense.

I don't like FIM but I don't hate G4 and I even have maybe 80 brushables (mostly not M6). But G4 fandom is also always in terms of the show, which then leads to backdating comparisons to what earlier shows did, which leads to the rubbish about G2 = Tales and so on and so forth, completely ignoring that MLP was made originally in a time when cartoons existed to sell toys, not when franchises centred on a TV show that also had toys (a more recent trend). According to this modern retcon of what a pony fan is, I'm not a pony fan any more. I'm just someone who likes pony toys. For me that's all levels of wrong, because MLP began with toys.

I respect your opinion on My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic and although I'm not an expert on how the whole "made to sell toys"/"happened to have toys" changed and evolved (because I never really knew about the whole "made to sell toys" thing until I was older), but if this idea is what these kind of bronies think, then I agree they are wrong to do so, especially if implies that some fans don't count as fans.  Although I tend to think of animations first, I will always respect and love the toyline, as well as respect the fact that that My Little Pony is, first and foremost, a toyline.

On the subject of the divide - that also wasn't made here. When G4 came out, everything was super inclusive. The divide was made on the other side of the wall, when the compulsive need to trash everything and everyone pre-G4 began to happen. None of us ever wanted a divide, but protecting spaces from spammy and abusive trolls became imperative else this community and others would have ceased to exist.

Understandable.  I do get that most of it was the fault of the bad bronies.  I've always just... wanted to repair the divide however it was created.  I remember spending a lot of time around 2013 responding to as many hate comments towards the older generations as I could (as well as hate towards G4 from the pre-generation fans, as it did happen) - this was especially the case on G3 videos, as I was really getting into G3 back then, and like we've both said, it was getting a lot of hate.  This may or may not sound silly to someone who didn't experience it, but this actually depressed me for a while - it got to me that I was surrounding myself with all this hate directed at things that I love, being directed by fans of them to each other.  I know I intentionally put myself in the middle of all that hate, because I really wanted to defend the generations and their fans, but it ended up getting to me.

Though I still maintain fandom and fan opinion is not needed in a documentary about a toy.

a documentary should focus on the toys, toons, merch, history, creators and designers, not ANY of the fans.

It'd be just as stupid and nonsensical as a Rock n Roll documentary focusing more on groupies, roadies and super fans instead of the band's history and the music they made.

Understandable.  Essentially why I changed my idea to being an actual fandom documentary, rather than about the subject.  Respect if you don't like the idea, it was just an idea to show that we can still unite, or something.  I still get what was said in Taffeta's post I just responded too.

[Taffeta]

@MJSNEIFER - if all bronies had your mindset, there would never have been a community separation. And it sucks you had to deal with the hostility as well.

I would like to think if there was a documentary about the 'fandom' of MLP, it would ignore the 'bronies' - both the word and the concept of it being a male revolution - and actually go and talk to people from all different corners of the world who are of all different ages, genders, demographics, races, etc. And instead of labelling them as 'fans of x generation' or 'bronies' or whatever, just talk to them about what THEY like about MLP. NOt what they dislike about OTHER versions of MLP, but just what got THEM into collecting.

So instead of having a single voiced wave of "phenomenon brony woot" publicity, it actually shows the diversity of pony fans from all generations without priveleging any one as being somehow special.

I am generally against fan documentaries, though...I can ask the views of pony fans by posting a thing on here, but things on TV tend to go from being opinion to canonised because they appeared on a TV show. I would rather have the TV shows talking about the creation, production, and promotion, and other stuff like LAW says. We don't need fan voices in everything - fan voices ruined G4 and probably took the TV show in a direction away from the kids, despite them being the target audience.

The difference with G1 is that the target audience wasn't competing with an adult fanbase trying to define what MLP was. The target audience of G1 basically grew up into the adult collectors of G1 that exist now.

The BBC even reported on Ponycon this year. There are pictures of all generations of pony in the photos, but look at who it was they were interviewing, and look at the content of the interview. This is not a negative piece by any means - but it definitely still feeds into that same narrow focus of what MLP fans are.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-50029501

Time to change the whole mindset and remove these labels and start again just with 'fan'.

[Leave a Whisper]

@MJSNEIFER - if all bronies had your mindset, there would never have been a community separation. And it sucks you had to deal with the hostility as well.

I would like to think if there was a documentary about the 'fandom' of MLP, it would ignore the 'bronies' - both the word and the concept of it being a male revolution - and actually go and talk to people from all different corners of the world who are of all different ages, genders, demographics, races, etc. And instead of labelling them as 'fans of x generation' or 'bronies' or whatever, just talk to them about what THEY like about MLP. NOt what they dislike about OTHER versions of MLP, but just what got THEM into collecting.

So instead of having a single voiced wave of "phenomenon brony woot" publicity, it actually shows the diversity of pony fans from all generations without priveleging any one as being somehow special.

I am generally against fan documentaries, though...I can ask the views of pony fans by posting a thing on here, but things on TV tend to go from being opinion to canonised because they appeared on a TV show. I would rather have the TV shows talking about the creation, production, and promotion, and other stuff like LAW says. We don't need fan voices in everything - fan voices ruined G4 and probably took the TV show in a direction away from the kids, despite them being the target audience.

The difference with G1 is that the target audience wasn't competing with an adult fanbase trying to define what MLP was. The target audience of G1 basically grew up into the adult collectors of G1 that exist now.

The BBC even reported on Ponycon this year. There are pictures of all generations of pony in the photos, but look at who it was they were interviewing, and look at the content of the interview. This is not a negative piece by any means - but it definitely still feeds into that same narrow focus of what MLP fans are.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-50029501

Time to change the whole mindset and remove these labels and start again just with 'fan'.

 

Exactly. And again, why should FiM fans be the Only MLP fans worth interviewing? They aren't the first boys to like a girl franchise, nor are they the last.

Where are the interviews for the G2 and G3 fans? Why are they less worthy?  How bout we give THEM a chance to talk.

Where are the interviews for girl fans of boy stuff? G.I Joe, Transformers, TMNT?

What about interviews for boys who like Jem, Rainbowbrite or Care Bears?

Sorry MJ, but I find their attitude strictly inclusive.

I don't care what people like. Being a fan of anything doesn't make anyone special and worthy of media attention. That smacks of ego-stroking.

[Eternia]

FEED THE BEAST

[brightberry]

I’ve always thought that the media featuring Bronies was making fun of them a little?  In kind of a “look at this nut” way.  Even in this episode, it didn’t make being a Brony look cool.  At best, it made some Bronies feel better about themselves but I don’t think it improved the rest of the world’s view of MLP fans. 



I guess what I’m trying to say is that the reason why the media covers MLP these days is because they want shots of men wearing pony costumes and talking about My Little Pony.   I don't think they do it to flatter the fans, they’re just looking for eyeballs.

[Artemesia's Garden]

I’ve always thought that the media featuring Bronies was making fun of them a little?  In kind of a “look at this nut” way.  Even in this episode, it didn’t make being a Brony look cool.  At best, it made some Bronies feel better about themselves but I don’t think it improved the rest of the world’s view of MLP fans. 



I guess what I’m trying to say is that the reason why the media covers MLP these days is because they want shots of men wearing pony costumes and talking about My Little Pony.   I don't think they do it to flatter the fans, they’re just looking for eyeballs.

I agree. Maybe the media covers bronies more because they are of greater interest to a wider audience. I think it just tingles that curiosity about cross-dressing that many people still seem to have, which unfortunately I don't think really comes from a good place. It's simply less usual to see men in pastel stretch fabric than women, so people look more. Unfortunately i don't think a lot of this coverage has much to do with ponies. Also on a slightly different note I don't think it would ever occur to most of the audience who engaged with this show that the community might be divided by poor behaviour or that a rich and varied culture has emerged etc.

[Taffeta]

Yeah, I can see this too. A combination of lurid fascination from the media and attention seeking from the fanbase :/.

MLP has never really been respected...I am forgetting which documentary it was over here, maybe I love 1983, where they included a commercial (which was great) and then failed to talk at all about the toy and instead showed a pony...possibly a TAF...being yanked off screen before going to some other subject.

It's another reason why fandom should not really be part of anything about MLP. None of it really ends up positively...

It's like when a tabloid here goes nuts about "your pony could be worth hundreds of pounds!" after someone saw a Rapunzel sell, gets all the information about MLP and about collecting it wrong, suggests all MLP are valuable and that the readers may have this expensive pony in their loft, even though she wasn't sold here so it's really unlikely. Or it's a Nirvana pony, even more unlikely. Which feeds the greedy dealers with bald peachies saying "it's a real MLP and they're collectable you know."

...They're all parts of the same kind of problem really, just from different angles. Sensationalism sells, truth doesn't.

[Khoufu]

I think that a small segment about the fans as a place in any documentary that is about something that people are meant to be fans of. For example, Beatlemania/fanatic screaming fangirls and hippies have a place in a Beatles documentary. Not necessarily a big place, but a 2-5 minute segment about the fans seems fine. After all, songs and toys and such are made for people to enjoy, so it seems ok to talk about how people enjoyed them.