"A Trivial Pursuit" FiM Episode

[MJNSEIFER]

It did feel kind of strange for them to reference shipping. Especially because [appledash rant redacted]. Also I thought we left the days of mostly pandering to the fandom behind us but I guess not.

Well, to be fair, shipping does fit in with the theme of the show (as friendshipping exists), plus I've heard that Ashleigh likes AppleDash, so it may not be pandering.

This is more for the unpopular opinions thread (and I've probably already put it there), but I actually don't think they do pander to the fans all that much.  Most of the pandering seems to just be inclusion of ponies that the fandom like (such as Lyra Heartstrings, for example) in key scenes.  So... I don't think they pander any more obviously than they did in season 2, for the most part - there are parts where it looks like they're trying to create a meme (like the "pudding" thing), but that could just be me.

To be honest, the only obvious thing back when everyone here seemed to be talking about them pandering to the fandom was the "-licious meme" being referenced in "Pinkie Apple Pie", and that was a shout out to the guy who helped start the meme, because he's friends with Michelle, and thus, not pandering.

If this distracts from the topic, I'm fine with it being moved to the unpopular opinions post.

[Dragonflitter]

I didn't even think of it as a shout-out to the shippers, when I watched the ep. o.0 Though yeah I guess it could be, now that it's been pointed out to me. But I think it's more likely they just were trying to write a quick catchy line, and Appledash is easier to say in the middle of Twilight's loud rant than "the team of Applejack and Rainbow Dash" would have been.

[TJgamer]

It's pretty obvious they know of the ship names and decided to incorporate them into the story.

Also I'd like to ask, how would you do this episode differently while still keeping it entertaining?
(Scrapping the episode is not an answer)

[Dragonflitter]

For me personally, I think this episode is a case of the characters' traits being magnified to the extreme in a negative way, which leaves a bad taste in some viewer's mouths. I would have liked there to have been a more sincere apology in the end, as well, from both of them for the way they had been acting.

[Pinkie21]

I would have loved for there to have been a message like, “It’s okay to want the best teammate in order to ensure a win”, but I know that would go against the “spirit” of the series.  But seriously though, it’s more than okay to put a personal goal ahead of a friendship.

[Al-1701]

It also didn't help that Pinkie started with a stereotypical bubble-headed answer.  Pinkie Pie is not that clueless, and when she is it's a sign the episode is poorly written.

[otocolobus_manul]

Whoops, didn't mean to start a shipping debate. I'm neutral on ships - I just don't like the "2 who have to one-up each other in everything and cant admit fault/weakness to each other out of personal pride" being seen as romantic. That's not... a healthy basis for a relationship. It would be one thing if they only got competitive in certain situations, but they turn everything into a cutthroat competition - and when that fails, they literally make things up to compete over. That's just their relationship. If anything, they remind me of siblings with their rivalry.

Anyway, the only positive I can find with this episode is that Tara Strong clearly had fun voicing Twilight throughout it, as did the animators drawing Twilight's many faces. There's something to be said for that, I think.

[Deep Purple Crystal]

Spoiler

This was... not a good experience.
During my recent hiatus from this place, I attempted to marathon the entirety of FiM chronologically and eventually came... to this episode, which essentially epitomizes every major issue with the later seasons; most notably the duller character interactions and multiple contrivances being pulled out to reach the obviously telegraphed climatic moral. The earlier seasons featured poorly-written and contrived episodes to an extent as well, but there was typically a sense that they were trying to accomplish something of value and many more episodes achieved higher highs by mining surprisingly subtlety and complexity out of simple, shopworn plots, whilst the seasons beyond 3 tend to overreach into 'intricacy' and instead deliver extremely simplified versions of conceptually complex plots where every point feels weirdly telegraphed to carry the narrative. It doesn't feel like the kind of priority that fits FiM's mechanics that well, personally, and the recent episodes where the crew lean into more comedic territory exude more an air of just throwing in some wacky faces (or obvious attempts to manufacture brony memes), references and scenes of characters loudly and awkwardly freaking out and calling it a day (remember when episodes featured jokes with more actual variety?). It also doesn't help that the comedy barely feels natural anymore, which is kind of detrimental to plots such as this - because most of FiM's jokes now stems from characters overreacting in an obvious and unrealistic manner, the more grounded aspects of the earlier comedic episodes have been shed in favor of a more artificial and emptily jokey air in a way that reminds me more of a awkward ripoff of a Friends-esque sitcom than FiM (notice how Pinkie was basically shoehorned into the role of the 'annoying airheaded friend' in a way that felt pretty similar to this?). I guess I just don't come to FiM to watch a bad sitcom, and this episode irked me as a result.

[otocolobus_manul]

I still hold that seasons 1-3 were the worst of the show, but I agree with some of the points you make. I guess I just value that the later seasons tried to get more intricate, even if they didn't always necessarily succeed, whereas the earlier season just feel lazy to me by comparison.

Also, I thought of another problem with this episode. Why did Sunbrust try to get Twilight disqualified? She was frazzled, sure, but she obviously knew all the right answers, unlike Pinkie. Also, who else was he going to pick as his partner? Twilight was his best shot at winning and he knew it. Furthermore, why didn't Twilight bring this up?! It shouldn't have been "what kind of teammate deliberately gets their partner disqualified?", it should've been "why are you trying to disqualify me when I know all the right answers?"

We could've had a map episode. We could've had a student six episode. We could've had an Applejack episode, since we never got one after Honest Apple two seasons ago. We could've explained how some of the Apple family lives in the Hollow Shades when it's been abandoned for millennia. We could've explained what the Shadow was. We could've had an episode focusing on Spike and Pinkie or Spike and Rainbow or the CMC and Pinkie or Discord and anyone but Twilight or Fluttershy or any relationship between the main characters that never got fleshed out. Instead we got this and 2 4 6 Great. I wouldn't be so harsh on these episodes, but it's the LAST SEASON, and they're just such missed opportunities.

Ok I'll stop ranting about this episode now lol

[Al-1701]

I got to disagree about applauding the staff for trying to be more intricate.  It's just encouraging the bad behavior that got us here.  They've never succeeded with more complex topics.  In anything, they're caused structural damage to the series.  The dragons have never recovered from "Dragon Quest" and the yaks are a lost cause.  There are so many destructive unintended messages in this show that still puts itself out as the instruction manual on friendship.

I'm someone who cares more about the results than the intentions.  "The road to Hell is paved in good intentions" as they say.  It reminds me of Junkyard Wars where the complicate machines seemed to breakdown and be useless while the simpler machines get the job done in maybe not the flashiest and most effective fashion.

Were the earlier seasons simple, yes.  However, the jokes landed better, the characters were endearing, and the lessons seemed more well covered.

[otocolobus_manul]

I suppose that's a matter of opinion, ha

And yeah, they really bungled the yaks and dragons. But a lot of the worst episodes, at least in my opinion - Dragon Quest, Mysterious Mare Do Well, Feeling Pinkie Keen, One Bad Apple, Green Isn't Your Color, Boast Busters, and [shudders] Over A Barrel - were in the first few seasons. All of these I consider to have very bad messages, and I sure I wouldn't want any kid I know watching and learning from them.

The later seasons had some real bombs too, of course - 28 Pranks Later, Twilight Time, Amending Fences, anything involving Flurry Heart, Party Pooped, Yakity-Sax - but most of these I consider bad due to not making any sense (Amending Fences, Twilight Time) or just being annoying (McFlurry's episodes), and I wouldn't consider any offensive except Party Pooped, Yakity-Sax and 28 Pranks Later. That being said, I consider those three some of the worst of the series, so I suppose if anything, the quality throughout the later seasons got super polarized; when they pulled something off, they really pulled it off (Twilight's Kingdom, The Perfect Pear, To Where and Back Again, Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep? - all of which, especially the last one, I consider stellar examples of dealing with complex topics in a kids show) but when they dropped the ball, you end up with stuff like the last 2 episodes.

I do agree with the way the show totes itself rubbing me the wrong way a bit - that's why bad episodes are so bad to me. This show has taught me so much, but even when I started watching, I was old enough to pick out the lessons I thought were wack. The idea of kids watching Mysterious Mare Do Well/Green Isn't Your Color and thinking those are peak models of friendship is nothing less than horrifying.

I also agree that the characterization was more consistent, if simpler, back in the early seasons. I disagree about the jokes, but that's because I have a very stupid sense of humor, lol. And I can't say I agree about the lessons - like I said, a lot of them rubbed me the wrong way, and the ones that didn't were largely things I'd seen in other kids shows, so it didn't feel like the lessons were actually... teaching much. But that's my perspective as a preteen/teenager/adult (have I really been watching this show for 8 years?!), so I'm not sure how valid that criticism is. I guess that's why I liked the later season better as well - they tried to tackle less-covered topics, and even if they didn't always succeed, I applaud them for simply normalizing the covering of less-discussed topics in kids media. If nothing else, I guess I see it as paving the way for later cartoons to do it potentially better. I know nothing in FiM is too revolutionary - dead parents, dealing with guilt/forgiving yourself, realizing you don't need a lifelong dream to find happiness, divorced parents, feeling worthless, the US school system being garbage, having traditional methods of learning not work for you, being disowned, etc. are all things other kids shows have dealt with, but I feel there's still a taboo around them, this need to tiptoe around them to protect kids from them - as if some kids don't already live these things, and don't find comfort in seeing themselves represented on tv.

FiM could have done more and broken the mold further, true. But I'm pretty happy with what they did do. Except the yaks. The yaks are awful. The dragons and griffons aren't much better. And we never did learn any more about zebras - which is probably a good thing, I don't trust them to handle it well.

I can't knock the early seasons too much, of course - they had their great episodes too, and we wouldn't have the later seasons without them. Plus, that's when I started watching, which changed my life so much it's really not funny. Hurricane Fluttershy is still the best episode.

...buuuut that's all just my onion. Speaking of which, did we ever get an onion themed pony? We need an onion themed pony.

[Dragonflitter]

We will never know what the Shadow was supposed to be. 

Probably the people who wrote the episode don't know either.

[lonewolf]

Despite the episode's faults, it did give us the best "Twilynanas" (the new term for when she loses it) expressions ever (Pinkie had a few too):

Spoiler

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[Al-1701]

Don't get me started on A Perfect Pear.  I could write a doctoral thesis on why that empty shell of an episode slot is the epitome of terrible writing going for cheap emotional manipulation due to a lack of any substance.  When I was going to review the episode, I realized it was going to be a small novel, so I retold the story of "The Emperor's New Clothes" as an analogue for the episode's intended effect.  All I will say is I didn't think you could waste William Shatner, but then I saw this episode.

And Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep was actually a terrible message because it suggests depression is something that can just be hugged away.  Luna needed help, actual professional help, and not the lupine charlatan type.

Which gets me back to this episode.  So they very next episode has Twilight completely cool and collected while everything is fall apart around her ears.  Since when has this been the case?  And they even felt the need to add that what happened in this episode was an outlier, even though it's never been the outlier.  Just...why did they think this episode had to exist?

[MJNSEIFER]

The dragons have never recovered from "Dragon Quest"

I personally felt they never needed to recover from that episode - I always felt that one group of dragons doesn't represent the whole species, so I never felt that the episode damaged them in anyway.

We will never know what the Shadow was supposed to be. 

Probably the people who wrote the episode don't know either.

Is this the shadow in "Castle-Mania"?  I thought that was supposed to be G4 Tirek...