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Author Topic: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion  (Read 2485 times)

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Offline Sunset

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Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2019, 05:21:40 PM »
So I don’t quite know what to think of this premier.  Lots of plot holes and eye-rolling moments.

I wonder if Gusty was just chosen because she is a popular character.  Or maybe because of her voice actor?

I’m just interested to see how this season does or doesn’t set up the next step of the franchise.

Offline Zapper

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Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2019, 07:10:19 PM »
I wasn't wowed by it and I honestly cut the writers some slack in the past. I am not surprised it is yet again a two-parter, slice of life, two-parter format because it has always been. But since this season should wrap up the series it should really feel more grand and better written.

So here is my big issue:
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I have always hated that they brought Discord back because he is just too powerful and every time he isn't, it's because he chooses to be a jerk. We have seen this so many times before. It would have actually been good if Sombra would have drained him of his powers until the end of the season, similar to how Tirek fooled him.

Speaking of Tirek... so I am not mad that he is now Grogar's subordinate. The G4 Tirek is very different from my fave G1 villain. Chrysalis also makes sense in some way. Both of them gave powers Grogar can use.
But I don't get why Cozy Glow is still here. Grogar must have severe issues if he thought "ah yes, the power of baby!"
Cozy is a fun sidekick to Tirek but ehh... can she please be revealed as something more sinister? If Grogar is so old and powerful, surely he would have thought of a better villain than her.
Would have been cool to see the Sirens again or someone new.

I already saw a new Yak Yakistan episode is in the pipeline, so I guess this season won't be as epic as the trailer made it out to be.

PS: Luna saying it was "fun" to fight for Equestria made me realize that every single time she was knocked out when something went down. If anyone should be the new ruler it should be Nightmare Moon :P
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 07:12:26 PM by Zapper »

Offline Al-1701

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Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2019, 07:11:52 PM »
I think they chose Gusty for the alliteration.  And I think it's clear this is a different continuity from G1.  There was no mention of Tambelon here.

And I'm glad they had a sensible character designer for this one.  Tirek is in his optimal form (powerful but not ridiculous looking), and Grogar looks awesome.

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Offline Zapper

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Re: \\\"The Beginning of the End\\\" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2019, 07:20:07 PM »
I am all for Gusty because she is gutsy (lol) and a G1 fan fave. If the other fanbase had their way again they probably would have made it someone's fanfic character :lol:

Also, "Gusty the Great" was an easteregg in that one episode where Twilight reads to sick foals. In the book Gusty led a unicorn army (or whatever) to defeat Grogar. So this is a case where they brought back something from a previous season and cemented it as canon. It's cute.

Post Merge: April 07, 2019, 07:30:11 PM

I don't think making Twilight the sole rular of Equestria is a good idea at ALL. Makes me dislike her even more, honestly.

This show needs to end with everything being part of the sisters plan to become one with the universe or whatever. I can't fathom them just "retiring" and kicking back while someone else rules. I was honest to dog believing it was all a set-up or dream or higher power messing with them until the end when Celestia confirmed they still want Twilight to take over. Like what the heck?
They made such a big fuss about Twilight becoming a Princess with a beautiful song sequence and coronation. This time she becomes president of a nation and it's just "eh, watch the land while we are off" :lol:

Post Merge: April 07, 2019, 09:13:33 PM

Overall it was a pretty good start to the season. It's not too hard to view Grogar and his gang as a nod to Lex Luthor and the Legion of Doom.

Sorry for hogging the thread but I am just now reading all the comments in here.

I got a very specific Saruman vibe from Grogar, not so much Lex Luthor.
His design looks older than his G1 version, his voice is different.
He even had the Eye of Sauron or more like, Eye of Goatron? and the way he spoke about "birthing" evils, much like Saruman created the Uruk'hai. I would even go as far as saying he got the other villains to lend him their talents like Saruman tried to get Gandalf to join him, by force.

I think it's a bit sad the show turned into a reference fest. Sure, a kid won't notice as much but to me Grogar is not a G4 creation. He just seems like G1 Grogar meets Saruman.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 09:13:33 PM by Zapper »

Offline Ponyfan

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Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2019, 12:52:15 AM »
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Offline Mewtwofan1

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Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2019, 04:07:00 AM »
     Not one of the best season openers, but it was enjoyable. It’s wonderful to see our favourite ram necromancer back on the job, having casually been stalking ponies this whole time. And he’s intelligent! For once, we have a villain who knows his enemy and their tactics. That’s pretty impressive, and he’s willing to use other powerful villains to destroy them. Grogar might be pretty powerful on his own. I’d like to see what he does next! And gusty is cannon!
    I wasn’t fully on board with twilight and her friends leading Equestria, and I’m glad to see it’s not happening quite yet. It’s a lovely idea, but I don’t think it’s the best idea for now. Perhaps the series ends with twilight and co. Taking over Equestria.
     And now sombra...I like him, and I’ve always wanted to see more of the dark king himself and his abilities in action-aside from growing crystals and laughing. I’m not a fan of his new voice, but I’m alright with it. I think sombra actually came closer than anybody to taking over Equestria. He took over the crystal empire in what was probably a few minutes or an hour, destroyed the physical elements and the tree, genuinely thought he had taken care of the elemental bearers, took over 99% of the ponies in ponyville and canterlot, we all were kinda convinced he had mortally wounded the lord of chaos himself, and nearly succeeded in his plans. His assaults were quick, calculated and thought out. The two flaws he failed to account for was discord, and that he didn’t eliminate the mane six. Why can’t evil villains just kill their protagonists, or otherwise incapacitate  them? Had his bloated ego not overrides his judgement, Equestria might be hailing the true king right about now. But overall, well done sombra. Let’s just hope the others have learnt from your mistakes.
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Offline Leave a Whisper

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Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2019, 04:09:08 AM »
     Not one of the best season openers, but it was enjoyable. It’s wonderful to see our favourite ram necromancer back on the job, having casually been stalking ponies this whole time. And he’s intelligent! For once, we have a villain who knows his enemy and their tactics. That’s pretty impressive, and he’s willing to use other powerful villains to destroy them. Grogar might be pretty powerful on his own. I’d like to see what he does next! And gusty is cannon!
    I wasn’t fully on board with twilight and her friends leading Equestria, and I’m glad to see it’s not happening quite yet. It’s a lovely idea, but I don’t think it’s the best idea for now. Perhaps the series ends with twilight and co. Taking over Equestria.
     And now sombra...I like him, and I’ve always wanted to see more of the dark king himself and his abilities in action-aside from growing crystals and laughing. I’m not a fan of his new voice, but I’m alright with it. I think sombra actually came closer than anybody to taking over Equestria. He took over the crystal empire in what was probably a few minutes or an hour, destroyed the physical elements and the tree, genuinely thought he had taken care of the elemental bearers, took over 99% of the ponies in ponyville and canterlot, we all were kinda convinced he had mortally wounded the lord of chaos himself, and nearly succeeded in his plans. His assaults were quick, calculated and thought out. The two flaws he failed to account for was discord, and that he didn’t eliminate the mane six. Why can’t evil villains just kill their protagonists, or otherwise incapacitate  them? Had his bloated ego not overrides his judgement, Equestria might be hailing the true king right about now. But overall, well done sombra. Let’s just hope the others have learnt from your mistakes.

He's not a necromancer. Sorcerer does not equal necromancer. I wish that bloody misconception would stop already. A necromancer is someone who speaks to the dead. A spiritual medium. Necro=dead, mancy=to divine. Some kids holding a seance with a ouija board in a cemetary is more accurate to necromancy then a warlord  who shoots lightning bolts at people is.


And saying that Gusty is now quote on quote canon, when she's always been...well to put it politely is a very irritating thing to hear.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 04:23:33 AM by Leave a Whisper »
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Offline Mewtwofan1

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Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2019, 04:42:24 AM »
     Not one of the best season openers, but it was enjoyable. It’s wonderful to see our favourite ram necromancer back on the job, having casually been stalking ponies this whole time. And he’s intelligent! For once, we have a villain who knows his enemy and their tactics. That’s pretty impressive, and he’s willing to use other powerful villains to destroy them. Grogar might be pretty powerful on his own. I’d like to see what he does next! And gusty is cannon!
    I wasn’t fully on board with twilight and her friends leading Equestria, and I’m glad to see it’s not happening quite yet. It’s a lovely idea, but I don’t think it’s the best idea for now. Perhaps the series ends with twilight and co. Taking over Equestria.
     And now sombra...I like him, and I’ve always wanted to see more of the dark king himself and his abilities in action-aside from growing crystals and laughing. I’m not a fan of his new voice, but I’m alright with it. I think sombra actually came closer than anybody to taking over Equestria. He took over the crystal empire in what was probably a few minutes or an hour, destroyed the physical elements and the tree, genuinely thought he had taken care of the elemental bearers, took over 99% of the ponies in ponyville and canterlot, we all were kinda convinced he had mortally wounded the lord of chaos himself, and nearly succeeded in his plans. His assaults were quick, calculated and thought out. The two flaws he failed to account for was discord, and that he didn’t eliminate the mane six. Why can’t evil villains just kill their protagonists, or otherwise incapacitate  them? Had his bloated ego not overrides his judgement, Equestria might be hailing the true king right about now. But overall, well done sombra. Let’s just hope the others have learnt from your mistakes.

He's not a necromancer. Sorcerer does not equal necromancer. I wish that bloody misconception would stop already. A necromancer is someone who speaks to the dead. A spiritual medium. Necro=dead, mancy=to divine. Some kids holding a seance with a ouija board in a cemetary is more accurate to necromancy then a warlord  who shoots lightning bolts at people is.


And saying that Gusty is now quote on quote canon, when she's always been...well to put it politely is a very irritating thing to hear.
     Wait...I thought he was a necromancer? I thought those were the extent of his powers. Sorry about that. I guess I need to rewatch the return of tambelon. And I meant gusty as in g4 cannon. Like it wasn’t some fairy tale that twilight read, but it was based on an actual event that occurred in Equestria.
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Offline Leave a Whisper

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Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2019, 05:09:55 AM »
Now you know what necromancy is. :)


And for the record I'm trying to find a way to say this next part, without coming off as belligerent or combative. So if I did come off that way, I apologize and its totally not my intention in anyway shape or form to do so.  ^^;

What I'm trying to say is,  a character doesn't need to appear in more then one continuity to be official. That'd be like saying Perfect and Polite Panda doesn't exist or matter just because they're not in the current Care Bear line-up.

Or like Mara Jade is automatically to be disregarded  in Star Wars because she was never in any of the movies. Ya know what I mean? 

Hopefully those were good examples. Sorry if they weren't.  :blush:

« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 05:26:26 AM by Leave a Whisper »
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Offline Minty_Magic

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Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2019, 10:44:36 AM »
I found the premier overall enjoyable! I won't lie, parts of it felt much more like a finale than a season opener, but I suppose that makes sense for this season. ;)

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Now you know what necromancy is. :)


And for the record I'm trying to find a way to say this next part, without coming off as belligerent or combative. So if I did come off that way, I apologize and its totally not my intention in anyway shape or form to do so.  ^^;

What I'm trying to say is,  a character doesn't need to appear in more then one continuity to be official. That'd be like saying Perfect and Polite Panda doesn't exist or matter just because they're not in the current Care Bear line-up.

Or like Mara Jade is automatically to be disregarded  in Star Wars because she was never in any of the movies. Ya know what I mean? 

Hopefully those were good examples. Sorry if they weren't.  :blush:



I think everyone defines "canon" a little differently. :) For me personally, there are different canons even within on brand or franchise! Taking My Little Pony, for example, there are lots of different canons with in that for me! I see G1, G2, G3, and G4 all as their own separate canons and story lines. Since we're talking about Gusty, I'll build off that. In my eyes she's an official My Little Pony Character, no questions asked! But within canon, I primarily only see her as being in the G1 world. Her being mentioned in Friendship Is Magic ties her into the canon of that world too. However, if we do see her and she has a different color scheme or personality, I may still consider her a totally separate character. As an example, I don't see G1 Moondancer and G4 Moondancer as the same pony. Even though they have the same colors, they exist in different worlds and don't have the same personality.

To dig even deeper into it, I still see different canons within even G4! I don't count the comics as being canon to the show because even though they are taking place within the same world with the same main characters, there are enough differences for me to view it as its own separate entity!

I'm sorry if this is confusing, it's a little hard to explain where my brain is on this! :blush: I just wanted to clarify that I don't think Mewtwofan1 or anyone else who is saying Gusty is "canon" now was trying to imply Gusty isn't official or important as a My Little Pony character, just that she is now a named character within the new generation, which is exciting!

I don't think there's any right or wrong way to view characters and how they fall into a specific canon. Frankly this stuff is super confusing and I can switch back and forth on how I want to define it depending on the work I'm talking about!   

Offline Zapper

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Re: \"The Beginning of the End\" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2019, 11:24:45 AM »
Quote
In fiction, canon is the material accepted as officially part of the story in the fictional universe of that story.

Now you know what canon is, Whisper :lol:

Gusty has indeed not been canon as per the FiM show. She was treated as a legend/fictional character. Now she isn't anymore. That means she has been "canonized". It has nothing to do with people disregarding a character. It is about that character actually existing in that specific timeline/universe or not.

I am curious if they will use the villains backstories from the IDW FiM comics, since they also brought in the Pillars. The FiM comics and the FiM show are two separate canons with only a little overlap as far as I know (the comics had Twinkle Eye ponies, more G1 characters and Nightmare Rarity).

Post Merge: April 08, 2019, 11:34:30 AM

Why can’t evil villains just kill their protagonists?

Because it's a kids cartoon and not Game of Thrones :lol:
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 11:34:30 AM by Zapper »

Offline Ponyfan

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Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2019, 01:11:28 PM »
Did someone mention that a Season 8 episode had Sombra lurking in the shadows spying on Flurry Heart?

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Offline Leave a Whisper

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Re: \\\\\\\"The Beginning of the End\\\\\\\" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2019, 03:29:11 PM »
Quote
In fiction, canon is the material accepted as officially part of the story in the fictional universe of that story.

Now you know what canon is, Whisper :lol:

Gusty has indeed not been canon as per the FiM show. She was treated as a legend/fictional character. Now she isn't anymore. That means she has been "canonized". It has nothing to do with people disregarding a character. It is about that character actually existing in that specific timeline/universe or not.

I am curious if they will use the villains backstories from the IDW FiM comics, since they also brought in the Pillars. The FiM comics and the FiM show are two separate canons with only a little overlap as far as I know (the comics had Twinkle Eye ponies, more G1 characters and Nightmare Rarity).

Post Merge: April 08, 2019, 11:34:30 AM

Why can’t evil villains just kill their protagonists?

Because it's a kids cartoon and not Game of Thrones :lol:

I know what canon is Sith Empress Zapper. ;)




Post Merge: April 08, 2019, 03:46:52 PM

I found the premier overall enjoyable! I won't lie, parts of it felt much more like a finale than a season opener, but I suppose that makes sense for this season. ;)

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

Now you know what necromancy is. :)


And for the record I'm trying to find a way to say this next part, without coming off as belligerent or combative. So if I did come off that way, I apologize and its totally not my intention in anyway shape or form to do so.  ^^;

What I'm trying to say is,  a character doesn't need to appear in more then one continuity to be official. That'd be like saying Perfect and Polite Panda doesn't exist or matter just because they're not in the current Care Bear line-up.

Or like Mara Jade is automatically to be disregarded  in Star Wars because she was never in any of the movies. Ya know what I mean? 

Hopefully those were good examples. Sorry if they weren't.  :blush:



I think everyone defines "canon" a little differently. :) For me personally, there are different canons even within on brand or franchise! Taking My Little Pony, for example, there are lots of different canons with in that for me! I see G1, G2, G3, and G4 all as their own separate canons and story lines. Since we're talking about Gusty, I'll build off that. In my eyes she's an official My Little Pony Character, no questions asked! But within canon, I primarily only see her as being in the G1 world. Her being mentioned in Friendship Is Magic ties her into the canon of that world too. However, if we do see her and she has a different color scheme or personality, I may still consider her a totally separate character. As an example, I don't see G1 Moondancer and G4 Moondancer as the same pony. Even though they have the same colors, they exist in different worlds and don't have the same personality.

To dig even deeper into it, I still see different canons within even G4! I don't count the comics as being canon to the show because even though they are taking place within the same world with the same main characters, there are enough differences for me to view it as its own separate entity!

I'm sorry if this is confusing, it's a little hard to explain where my brain is on this! :blush: I just wanted to clarify that I don't think Mewtwofan1 or anyone else who is saying Gusty is "canon" now was trying to imply Gusty isn't official or important as a My Little Pony character, just that she is now a named character within the new generation, which is exciting!

I don't think there's any right or wrong way to view characters and how they fall into a specific canon. Frankly this stuff is super confusing and I can switch back and forth on how I want to define it depending on the work I'm talking about!


I know and you explained your position very well. Better thenI did.


Post Merge: April 08, 2019, 03:49:30 PM

Did someone mention that a Season 8 episode had Sombra lurking in the shadows spying on Flurry Heart?

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Ponyfan

That's pretty creepy.  :blink:
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 03:49:59 PM by Leave a Whisper »
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Offline Mewtwofan1

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Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2019, 06:28:12 PM »
Did someone mention that a Season 8 episode had Sombra lurking in the shadows spying on Flurry Heart?

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Ponyfan
...he’s a bit of a stalker, but it’s only just a little bit creepy? Like, I understand trying to know your opponent in and out, but really? In addition to controlling shadows, mind control and crystal growing, add stalking infants to his list of abilities in probably the brightest point in Equestria.
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Re: "The Beginning of the End" S9 Ep 1 & 2 Discussion
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2019, 12:50:50 AM »
I think my biggest issue with these two episodes was Luna and Celestia suddenly summoning the mane six and being all "Hey there.   I think we're gonna retire in a few days so yeah you guys can totally take over.  K? Thx."    That just seemed so out of character for them to just suddenly spring something like that.   It just felt weird (to me).