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Author Topic: Collecting animation cels  (Read 2220 times)

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Offline Ponyfan

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Collecting animation cels
« on: October 22, 2018, 07:42:34 AM »
Hi,

Someone mentioned pony animation cels recently and I started looking on Ebay at some animation cels (Not just MLP) How can you tell if an animation cel is authentic when it doesn't come with any paperwork stating that it came from the studio that made the film? How do the cels get out of the studio? Is an animation cell something that someone could make a copy of and sell it as authentic? 


All info appreciated. :)

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Offline banditpony

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Re: Collecting animation cels
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2018, 08:00:02 AM »
There are reproduction cels (like a sericel or chromacel) and sometimes fan made cels... Usually speaking, those are probably of a key scene. If the price is too low, that would probably be a red flag.

I recently read on this site about cels being considered toxic waste and not being able to be thrown away : https://www.animeigo.com/about/secret-history-animeigo/
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 08:01:49 AM by banditpony »
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Offline Ponyfan

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Re: Collecting animation cels
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2018, 03:23:43 PM »
Thank you bandit pony. :) I guess the price also depends on how many layers the cel has (characters and background vs just characters/parts of characters)  I never thought of an animation cel being considered toxic waste. :what:  Maybe it's the acetate layer they paint the animated characters on?


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Re: Collecting animation cels
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2018, 04:23:16 PM »
     I have an animation cell that’s supposed to be from Mlp tales. I’m not sure if it’s legit, but it does have what I think are production numbers or some kind of identification on the bottom. I’ve always wondered how they get out of the studio myself. I can’t offer much help, but I hope someone around here knows.
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Re: Collecting animation cels
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2018, 04:27:07 PM »
I've got four cels from MLPT and I'm actually hoping to snag more.
I heard that tales cels used to be super cheap and widespread. Not sure how they left myself, but it doesn't seem like there's enough demand for tales cels to make fakes anyway. Mine also have some numbers on the bottom.
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Offline banditpony

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Re: Collecting animation cels
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2018, 05:08:29 PM »
Thank you bandit pony. :) I guess the price also depends on how many layers the cel has (characters and background vs just characters/parts of characters)  I never thought of an animation cel being considered toxic waste. :what:  Maybe it's the acetate layer they paint the animated characters on?

For Japan specifically, it could be tied into the way they dispose things. (Am I wrong in thinking they might burn some trash?)

This article has some info about the composition of the plastic: http://www.getty.edu/conservation/publications_resources/newsletters/29_1/animation.html

Yeah. Without knowing what you want price can completely vary on what series it's from, if it's popular character, is it a key scene, are they centered on the screen, are the eyes open, the pose the character is in...

For anime, a hanken cel, is a cel for ... advertising? Those tend to run the highest... because they are ideal. (Something like that you'd wanna make sure it's from a legit source).

ETA:
The numbers on the bottom/top usually are for sequence.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:12:52 PM by banditpony »
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Offline Minty_Magic

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Re: Collecting animation cels
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2018, 07:27:12 PM »
I love animation cels! I have quite a few from mlp tales and one from catdog! As far as how to tell they’re real, I’m not 100% sure. The main key I use is price. If the cel is from a kind of obscure/ not very popular series it’s probably safe to assume it’s real. Tales cels are great to collect because they’re cheap and as far as I know there aren’t usually fakes, since it’s not worth the effort for the few fans who are interested!
Cels from major productions are trickier though. Especially Disney. Like banditpony mentioned, sericels are pretty common. They’re reproduction cels, you can usually tell them apart from a real cel based on the price and the scene shown. If it’s a key frame with lots of characters and a background and it’s a pretty reasonable price it’s probably not the real deal. They’re still cool! They just simply weren’t actually used in the production of a movie.
On the topic of backgrounds, a lot of times you will seemcels sold with a replica background. Original backgrounds tend to go for quite a bit, but I kind of like the replicas because they make the cel nice to display. :)
Disney actually used to sell their cels at Disneyland for a while! I think it was called the art corner in Tomorrowland. I’m always so jealous when I think about that! They were kids nd of just considered junk at the time and from what I understand they sold them cheap! Now of course they would be worth quite a bit. I believe those all cams with a certificate indicating they were authentic.
I tend to buy all my cels at conventions. That way I can hold them and kind of gauge for myself if I think they’re real. If you’re on eBay comparing prices will probably be your best resource, even if they come with a certificate there’s a chance that could be faked. Honestly the certificate that came with my catdog cel is questionable. The main thing to worry about though is if you’re happy with your purchase!
Cels are really interesting pieces of history! Good luck with starting your collection :)
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Offline toyjunky

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Re: Collecting animation cels
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2018, 08:55:31 PM »
Okay so I am going to get sort of long here, sorry in advance.

Production Cel -  A hand-painted animation cel that was actually filmed to create one frame of an animated scene that appeared in a cartoon/anime or animated movie. These are one of a kind as no two production cels are exactly alike.

Limited Edition Cels - These are hand-painted cels that were created for sale with a limited run.

Sericels - Silk-screened prints on clear plastic, or acetate, which appear to look just like a painted cel.

Production cels were sold in theme parks, studio stores, galleries, major auction houses, mail order catalog companies and online. Some were also given away. Knowing the subject matter release date/animation company can sometimes be a good indicator if the cell is a limited edition not a production cel. Disney stopped using hand-painted cels around 1990 for animated films when computer animation (CAPS) replaced the hand-painted process. Over the next decade other major animation studios phased cels out as well. Computer animation production system (CAPS) was a digital ink and paint process. Enclosed areas and lines could be easily colored in digitally instead of the longer process needed with hand-drawn animation. This was still a 2D animation processes.

So for example if someone was trying to sell a Lion King Production Cel you would be able to know that the film was not made with hand-painted cels. Another thing to point out is that in the early days of animation, it was a common practice to wash the celluloid off and use them again, or if damaged throw it out. So the older the release date the higher the price depending on the subject.

As mentioned above, there are a number of factors that determine the value of a cel. Production cels can range from thousands of dollars each (some Disney cels for example) to lower dollar amounts depending on the subject and type of cell. A main character, full bodied, key sequence, eyes open, looking at camera etc will generally cost more than another cel of the same character, partial body, in between poses, eyes closed, looking off/away from camera. TV animation cels tend to be more affordable that film cels.

In the best situation, all of them should come with the authentic paperwork. Cels from studios can often have seals of authenticity on them. The best advice I would give is to research about the ones your interested and also to try to buy from reputable sellers. One more thing, you also need to be careful how you handle/display production cels. Production cels are very fragile and can easily tear or the paint can scratch. They also can deteriorate and should be framed in an archival method with acid-free and lignin-free matting and ultraviolet protective acrylic rather than glass. Cells ideally should be displayed on a cool, dry, inside wall and out of direct sunlight.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 08:59:27 PM by toyjunky »

Offline banditpony

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Re: Collecting animation cels
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2018, 04:35:43 AM »
^
I think toyjunky's advice is fine, but I want to point out Japanese anime cels really don't tend to come with authentication. I don't think any lower end cartoon will either.
(You weren't clear what kind of cels you wanted, so I wanna point this out. I feel like Disney cels are a whole other animal to what I'm have collected).
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Offline LadyMoondancer

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Re: Collecting animation cels
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2018, 05:20:15 AM »
Any MLP Tales cels you find are likely legit, because they are inexpensive and not worth it to fake, financially.  Also there are tons of them around . . . very nice for Tales fans to collect, easy to find your favorite characters.  I just had a glance at eBay and there are about 100 Tales cels listed. :)
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Re: Collecting animation cels
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2018, 05:53:37 AM »
I've got some cels from my favorite anime, Di Gi Charat! They all take up a small portion of the celluloid, one isn't even of a character, and DGC is a somewhat niche anime, so they only cost me (well, my parents as this was years before I got a job haha) $8 each, I've got five of them.
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Offline toyjunky

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Re: Collecting animation cels
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2018, 08:08:33 PM »
Found these links today and thought it may be interesting to look at for anyone who has or wants MLP Tales cels. These cels were originally marked for sale since they have the studio seal and a certificate of authenticity verses being gifted, kept from production by an artist, etc. (auctions have ended so figured safe to post)

https://www.pristineauction.com/a201341-My-Little-Pony-Original-Hand...

https://www.pristineauction.com/a1564608-Original-1992-Patch-Clover-Bon-Bon-My-Little-Pony-Tales-125x155-Custom-Framed-Hand-Painted-Animation-Production-Cel-My-Little-Pony-COA

https://www.pristineauction.com/a358705-My-Little-Pony-Original-Hand-Painted-Animation-Production-Cel
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 08:13:16 PM by toyjunky »

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Re: Collecting animation cels
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2018, 07:57:34 AM »
I'll bet they just print the "certificates of authenticity" off a printer in their office, though.  :P  I mean, I'm sure the cels ARE legit, but I'm also sure Sunbow was not involved at all in producing documentation like that.
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Re: Collecting animation cels
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2018, 05:54:44 AM »
Thank you everyone. :) I'll probably start with MLP Tales cels as they don't seem to be very expensive. I'm a huge Disney fan but their cels are way out of my budget.


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