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Author Topic: I'm considering quitting Paypal - advice? (update pg.3)  (Read 6273 times)

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Offline Tulips

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I'm considering quitting Paypal - advice? (update pg.3)
« on: August 15, 2018, 06:40:40 PM »
Due to a recent nightmare with Paypal I'm considering quitting, but wondering what the alternatives are.

Here's a summary of the nightmare for anyone interested.

To sum it up, I paid for a mail forwarding service that damaged my product. I opened a claim with Paypal and they found in my favor, so long as I returned the item. The forwarding company had no legal claim on my item so I contested the decision. Paypal deliberated then came back with the same response. I contested again and this time they listened that it was for a service, not a product... they found in the sellers favor. I tried to contest again and they recommended I go to the bank. The bank retrieved my money and I thought everything was resolved. Nope, next day Paypal has updated my account to have an outstanding balance of the refund. I call them to demand an explanation, since it was their advice that got me in the situation. Apparently their protection policy doesn't cover services that are not as described, so forwarding companies can do as much damage to your goods as they want and get away with it, and since the case closed they cannot pursue the seller for the refund. They refuse to resolve in my favor, can't possibly foot the bill in place of the company (that I also suspect has illegal practices in regard to tax evasion), so I'm stuck with a negative balance and an account I can't use unless I want them to take the extra money to balance it without my permission next time I use it for a payment.

I also cannot delete my bank or card details, or even delete the account, because it is under limited access. Apparently if I haven't paid the balance in 120 days the account will be locked, allegedly with the outstanding balance still associated with it and any future accounts I try to open will also have limitations. I don't believe I'm in the wrong refusing to pay Paypal, at least I know if Paypal locks my account and then attempts to charge me (which they reassured they wouldn't) my bank should be able to protect me.

But what do I do now? Has anyone been in a situation like this and can offer advice?
I suspect my days of buying internationally are now over unless I can find a mainstream enough alternative that is more trustworthy.

Anyone use Google Pay?
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 06:49:02 PM by Tulips »
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Re: I'm considering quitting Paypal - advice?
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2018, 09:44:06 PM »
Ugh I had a nightmare with Paypal and I stopped using it too.  Which meant the end of my online pony buying... it's been over 10 years now.  :( 
There really isn't an equivalent, especially if you want to use Ebay. 

*pony hugs*  I know how frustrating this can be!  Paypal took me for a $1200 + ride through banking in Dante's Inferno over... get this... FORTY-THREE cents. 
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Offline brightberry

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Re: I'm considering quitting Paypal - advice?
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2018, 10:42:52 PM »
That sounds awful.   :hug:  Awww... I hope it works out.  I did have success once getting someone on the phone with me.  You might try that.

I don’t know what you can do.  If it happened to me, I would consider closing that bank account and credit cards associated with it.  If they were going to lock me out, I wouldn’t want someone in the future finding access to it.

But, I hope you can resolve it some other way.  That would be my extreme reaction scenario.  It’s likely they’d ping your credit history and I don’t know what your local laws are.  Why does Paypal have to be that way?

I didn’t link my paypal to my bank account, I have a CC with a really low limit because I just don’t trust them. 
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Offline Tulips

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Re: I'm considering quitting Paypal - advice?
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2018, 12:39:08 AM »
I don’t know what you can do.  If it happened to me, I would consider closing that bank account and credit cards associated with it.  If they were going to lock me out, I wouldn’t want someone in the future finding access to it.

That is a very good and worrying point, thank you Brightberry. I will investigate changing my bank account and card so there's no loose ends that can be exploited, be it by Paypal or potential hackers.
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Offline NightGliderSA

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Re: I'm considering quitting Paypal - advice?
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2018, 01:38:53 AM »
Oh wow, that really sucks! What did the forwarding company have to say about damaging your product though? Did they deny it? Surely they should be refunding you? Such a weird outcome from PayPal.

I stopped using the forwarding company that I had been making use of when they refused to give me the right to choose between their 'wonderful new product' (the post office) and how they normally sent my parcels (courier). With a negligible price difference.

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Re: I'm considering quitting Paypal - advice?
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2018, 02:20:34 AM »
Oh wow, that really sucks! What did the forwarding company have to say about damaging your product though? Did they deny it? Surely they should be refunding you? Such a weird outcome from PayPal.

The forwarding company denied that their actions caused damage, claimed it was pre-existing, and sent me photos of how the product arrived to them (from Amazon) and circled the so called 'damage'. Their 'damage' was just light reflecting off the packaging, and I had pointed out several other spots of damage that were not apparent in their photo but they were obtuse to and refused to acknowledge. Then they claimed that either way their policy only covered certain damage to the product, and despite charging me for insurance the damage they 'didn't cause' wasn't eligible for cover anyway.

Their actions? The box that my Amazon order arrived to them in was apparently too big, despite them claiming to charge actual weight and not dimensional weight. So they took it upon themselves to cut my box down to size, destroying the structural integrity and without adding any reinforcement or protection... The box was so tight that my purchase sustained crush damage to the entire face of the product. If I had been able to buy directly from Amazon the box would likely have been sufficient protection, or they would have at least acknowledged the result of their actions.

They also removed my invoice from Amazon and declared an incorrect value on the customs forms (less than half the true value). However they still charged me GST for the full value, so I suspect that they are potentially evading passing on the full amount of tax they gather if they're so quick to lie to customs. I have no proof of this though, but it is still against the law to make false declarations on customs forms.

I am so done with the entire thing. Sorry for ranting.
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Offline banditpony

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Re: I'm considering quitting Paypal - advice?
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2018, 04:18:29 AM »
Eh. I would pay the balance and close it.

Is it really PayPal's fault you didn't read the TOS? I'm aware when I use 3rd parties that I don't get buyer protection. I don't hold it against PayPal.

Or is it PayPal's fault that you used a service with poor customer service? The service I use repacks items with their own shipping materials appropriate to the item, and will use insurance if an item is damaged along the way from them.

Don't get me wrong, it really sucks. But this is more an issue with your forwarding service then it is PayPal.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 04:21:27 AM by banditpony »
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Re: I'm considering quitting Paypal - advice?
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2018, 05:15:37 AM »
Maybe if PayPal hadn't found in my favourite twice, lied to me over the phone about what their buyer protection service covered, advised me to seek a refund through my bank, and then claim they cannot pursue the seller but still open a case against them while I'm  stuck with a negative balance... Maybe then I would have just paid it and moved on. I tried to resolve this with the forwarding company, who charged me for insurance but refused responsibility, and the postal service that handled my package, but it's nobody's fault but my own apparently.

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To put it poetically: Apparently my package could have been sat on, spat on and s#@t on and I'd still be the one to blame. That may just be 'how it is', but that ain't right and I won't stand for it.

Sorry, the entire thing has had me tense and stressed for weeks. Don't mean to take it out on anyone or rant. Apologies.  :(
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Offline banditpony

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Re: I'm considering quitting Paypal - advice?
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2018, 05:33:11 AM »
No I get it, it really sucks.

But my advice still stands. Pay it and close the account.

Win some, lose some.

In the end it's something PayPal doesn't cover, so you shouldn't expect them to.

The first time they found in your favor because of the INAD-- but you can't claim that because you didn't buy the item from your forwarding service. So that really wasn't lying to you.

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Re: I'm considering quitting Paypal - advice?
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2018, 06:04:46 AM »
...what the... whaaaaaaaaaaat... I am so sorry that they jerked you around so much.

0/10 won't ship again; -1 star on Yelp.
No, really, use your social media outlets to leave feedback on their performance. People search up that stuff, and they are not the only forwarding shipper in the world.

To be honest with you, Paypal is useful. It's almost a necessity because of how many people use it. I wouldn't use it for stuff where there isn't a whole lot of cover, despite being covered by their "protection policy". Paypal is not there for the little guy- they are a business, and one with really poor customer service.

I don't know if you could seek legal advice based on this situation as a "he-said, she-said", but that would be a good avenue to take. Outside of that, I would just pay the balance and drop the use of Paypal as a money-wiring service outside of eBay and the like.

The best thing to do to make it go away would be to pay the balance and wash your hands of it.

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Re: I'm considering quitting Paypal - advice?
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2018, 08:48:59 AM »
Do you have something akin to Better Business Bureau? I'd also leave negative feedback on the shipping company as well. Did you buy insurance?
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Re: I'm considering quitting Paypal - advice?
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2018, 04:31:01 PM »
 :(

If they have a claim number, you might try calling them in person.  I've done that and we got it resolved.  I think being able to explain that Paypal itself told you to go to your bank and do that might get their attention.  I don't know how often you use Paypal, but it might not be worth it to them if you leave them over a comparatively smaller sum than what they would make if you stuck with them.  They caused you a lot of trouble and anxiety by their own miscommunications which should have been resolved in the first email. 

Something like that might even get this shipping company on their watch list.
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Re: I'm considering quitting Paypal - advice?
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2018, 08:24:03 PM »
Brightberry, actually all my communication with PayPal has been over the phone not via email.

I called them 4 times in total, the first two were after the case was found in my favor twice and I had to correct them that it was for a service not a product. Neither time did they mention that their buyer protection didn't cover services, in fact they reasured me that I should receive a refund still once it was redeliberatee by the resolution center team.

The third time I called was when the case was found in the seller's favor. I was informed that I should seek the refund through my bank, instead of contesting the decision again. They didn't mention anything about services not being covered at this point.

The final phone call was when I discovered the negative balance. I informed them that I had been advised by their customer service staff to go to the bank and only then was I told that I wasn't covered by buyer protection at all. They told me that they can't pursue the seller for the money anymore because the case was closed, but I was told that even if I had kept the case open while going to the bank the investigation by the bank would have automatically closed the case and opened a new one anyway.

So sure, I didn't know that their terms of service had all of this information, but considering 3/4 of their customer support team don't either can I really be punished for it. Also, the first three reps I spoke to were polite, even when unable to help me I felt I was being treated respectfully. The last one was very rude from the start and I was frustrated enough to return the attitude.

In any case I have 120 days to decide, then allegedly the account will be frozen and they can't pursue the outstanding balance. I figure if I don't feel the need to use PayPal in that time then I'll do well enough without them. I dare them to try and retrieve the money without permission, since I was informed that they cannot do so.

It's not even the negative balance that has my account limited, it's for my 'protection' and they require I send them a copy of my card statements to prove the account hasn't been compromised.
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Re: I'm considering quitting Paypal - advice?
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2018, 08:36:15 PM »
There is such jerking around going on here that I'm getting whiplash...

So, lets say that your bank refunds you... Then what does Paypal do? Remain at a negative, frozen for all time? If your bank gives you your money back that should be a nod in your favor that Paypal should follow.

Offline NightGliderSA

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Re: I'm considering quitting Paypal - advice?
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2018, 01:23:15 AM »
I'm a bit confused about the charge on your Paypal account Tulips: surely everything was paid for upfront already? The seller would not have sent the goods without being paid. The reshipper, in my experience, also takes their money prior to shipment. Why then is Paypal deducting money from your account now? There shouldn't be any outstanding balance anywhere that they have a right to take. Or did I perhaps miss something?

In addition, which right do they have to look at your banking statements? You are not requesting credit from them. I personally never send banking records to anyone, ever, unless absolutely necessary.

What a nightmare, it would be enough to cause anyone stress, sorry!

 

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