Rehairing for personal collection

[kissthethunder]

Rehairing a pony is also damage.

Looking at it objectively, it requires:

- Breaking the original neck seal
- Ripping out the original hair (however little is left of it)
- Using a rerooting tool which may or may not damage the holes further.
- Gluing inside the head with new glue.
- Potentially it also involves creating a new tail, thus maybe removing original tail and washer and so on.

I am not saying those things are wrong to do. Just that they are equally 'damaging' the original pony as is writing on it. They're permanent and can't be undone either.

Marking politics are also a bit hazy for me, because I see people getting ponies signed and that's fine, but writing rehair on the hoof is not so fine...? I really don't understand how that works.

If I had a $ for every time someone said "I'm never going to sell X so it doesn't matter", and then they sold it, I could buy a new MOC G1 pony. It may never happen, but it just makes sense to raise awareness of possibilities.

Marking may not be the perfect answer for everyone, but it is still a possible solution. If there's a better solution, then someone needs to be constructive and suggest it. Unless the solution is to let people get misled.

@BlackCurtains - Unfortunately yes, people do rehair ponies with the thought to scam people. I am pretty sure it was Greek ponies which at one point were being rehaired to create new variants or something? Plus there's the fake Reverse Gusties, and numerous incidents around Piggy Ponies being rehaired and not disclosed...to name a few. It's usually a problem more on big ticket items but there are people who will try and hide a rehair to get more money for their item. It's naive to think otherwise. Unfortunately just because you are honest with your rehairing doesn't mean everyone else is, and doesn't mean the person who (theoretically) buys a pony from you is as honest as you are. I have seen it happen to people. That's why it matters to me to make sure it doesn't happen going forward.

You know, I just can't agree with this statement hun. I think it's a matter of a collectors individual perspective. To you, it's damage. To another person, it's a restoration. It bothers some people and not others, and no side of the argument is right or wrong.

There's also something to be said about methods of rehairing. I personally hate the popular rehairing tool because despite being experienced in using it, I found it often ripped the hair plugs. I prefer a much more non-evasive glue free method that keeps the hair secure in the head and durable to brushing and styling.

Using the example of breaking the seal on the neck as devaluing I don't find agreeable either because that's something that is often done to address tail rust, mold, and dirt build up in the body It's never in my experience been something other collectors were bothered by.

It's odd to me. Rehairs were a really fun way to spruce up common and over-loved ponies only a couple short years ago. A large part of the community really loved it. It seems the fad has fizzled now but I deeply enjoy it still. Maybe people are worried about the scrutiny they'd be under in sharing? I'm not certain.

In any case, I want to reiterate that I don't feel anyone is right or wrong in this debate. It's merely a matter of personal preference and should be left at that.

EDIT-

Oh I wanted to add about people getting their ponies signed at the fairs by Bonnie and co.? Sundance, Peachy, and other typical classics are pretty abundant. If someone got a Rapunzel signed I might scratch my head a bit but alas- it's the other persons pony. I don't see having a common pony signed by the creator of the franchise we love defacing <3

I will say that rehairs should be marked. Kind of a case closed opinion of mine, but I digress still an opinion. There has been a lot of instances as already mentioned of scams transpiring because of rehairing and a mark goes a long way towards protecting buyers. To be fair though, there's a lot of precautions in place to protect buyers these days but hey, its polite in the community to help each other.

[Baby Sugarberry]

Meh. You keep using the word scammed, but if it's unintentional it's not a scam. It's a buyer beware situation - comes with collecting *shrug*

Does it matter if it's intentional if it leads to someone getting hurt?

Yes.

Yes it does matter.  The very definition of 'scam' is dishonesty.  Not knowing is not dishonesty.  It's up to the buyer to ensure the merchandise meets their personal criteria.  If they cannot discern that from the provided photographs/description alone, then they should ask.  Of course a collector selling ponies should know to check (and they do in general provide better descriptions of condition, since we know what to look for) but it's unfair to expect others to do something they find harmful to their ponies just to potentially satisfy other collectors later on. 

My two cents on the debate: By not marking a pony you could be responsible for someone losing money or getting hurt. Don't think that it's not your problem and don't take it lightly.

And marking up my own personal possessions in a way that devalues them in my eyes is acceptable, just because it *might* make a difference to someone later?  Sorry but no, it's not my responsibility to properly document a pony for sale.  If you don't accept rehairs, ask about it before you buy.  Simple, easy, and everyone goes home happy.

You say it's selfish if people don't mark.  I say it's selfish and incredibly rude to impose your (possible) future needs that could be satisfied in other way - by inspecting a pony properly - on other collectors, with ponies that don't even belong to you.  Do what you want with yours, but don't present your personal interests as fait accompli.

Rehairing a pony is also damage.
Looking at it objectively, it requires:
- Breaking the original neck seal
- Ripping out the original hair (however little is left of it)
- Using a rerooting tool which may or may not damage the holes further.
- Gluing inside the head with new glue.
- Potentially it also involves creating a new tail, thus maybe removing original tail and washer and so on.

Breaking the neck seal can be done in a way that does not damage the pony itself, only the glue
 - which has often given out completely on its own already. 

If the hair has been completely frizzed or buzzcut, it's already damaged.  Those are usually the ponies that get rehaired.  No one is advocating for ponies in great condition to be restored. 

A properly done reroot doesn't damage plugs, but you can say the same of an improperly done cleaning job, and I hear no one clamouring to leave their ponies dirty for fear of causing damage.  In fact I'd say far more ponies get damaged via cleaning (Oxyclean baths, acetone, magic eraser, even hot water in the case of flocking).   

Glue isn't necessary for all reroots.  I personally use knots - they're obviously not factory, and need no glue. 

Again removing the tail would only be done if the metal was causing damage to the pony (horribly rusty) or it was cropped / horribly frizzed. 

If someone was actively trying to scam, obviously they would not tell anyone it was a reroot, let alone write on it. And if someone got a pony with "reroot" on it and wanted to scam, they could just take a black marker and put a big ol' blot over the entire bottom of the hoof.

To me this seems like an 'answer' searching for a problem.  I don't think people getting 'fooled' by reroots is in any way common.  Yeah, Reverse Gusty happened . . . 20 years ago, when Paypal didn't exist and we were all sending cash overseas.  These days a simple "Item not as described" complaint will get your money back.

All of this.  If someone's looking to be deceitful, a small marking is not going to stop them.

[Taffeta]

The thing is, this thread is about a specific pony, who, on seeing the photos (no offence to the OP) most people have said probably doesn't need rerooting because her hair is fine.

Obviously we're not talking about buzzcut ponies. We're talking about ponies in general. Let's not avoid that as the main point. This thread is about rerooting a good condition Powder with a decent original mane.

The matter of whether rehairing is damage is clearly a sore point. I think the word damage is a bad one anyway, so let's remove it completely. The point I'm labouring is that changing a pony by marking or rerooting is a permanent change. Personal preference decides whether they are good or bad changes. But they are permanent changes and they impact on the pony's value. In most cases, a rehaired pony sells for less than a mint pony. Thus rehairing a pony with good hair would, to my mind, constitute "damage". Rehairing a buzzcut pony is still going to require removing the original roots, but in that case the damage done to remove the cut hair is somewhat offset by the restoration of some hair, if not authentic. These are two different scenarios, but the one relevant in this thread is the one about rehairing a pony with original hair in good condition. In which case, the pony's value is obviously going to take a hit through a rehair.

@Baby Sugarberry, do not even get me started on the cleaning issues and chemicals and that horrible acne cream disaster. That's even worse in my view, but it's a whole other thread completely to deal with that. BUT it does link to this in a way, since at the time nobody saw an issue with it, nobody marked or noted any ponies that had been treated with the stuff and we all know the result. I don't think this is quite like that.

Before you all tie me to the stake and burn me, I'm going to remind you that in my first couple of posts I said clearly that the whole restoration thing is an individual decision. But we now live in a world where people sell their collections and recollect and sell and recollect more than they did in the past. Also in a world of ugly ebay listing by phone where the seller's description is 'see pictures'. I feel like that mentality is maybe spreading here a bit too.

I do agree a buyer should ask all questions before buying. But a seller of course should obviously disclose any restoration work done on a pony as well. It's a 50/50 interaction in the interests of both parties.

The truth is it might not ever be an issue. But as time goes on, it seems like rehairing is probably going to get more common. Not just in G1, but if G3 suffers more hair rotting and such like...this is going to be something that gets more regularly discussed. The conversation a short while ago about the Raspberry Jam who was rehaired but undisclosed in a sale of some kind demonstrates that there are people who either can't tell a rehair or don't care when listing it.

I also want to underscore that in my earlier posts I said very clearly that even if they aren't being marked or if marking is not the right solution, some kind of record that they are rehaired is helpful. Even if it's just in your own database of your collection, a note that the pony has been rehaired. It's something at least. We're all fallible, and mistakes can happen. I don't really understand the hostility against thinking of a practical way to prevent those mistakes. Nobody is saying don't rehair, and nobody is saying you must mark your collection. All that is being said is that if a pony's been rehaired, it helps to make a note of it in some meaningful way so that in the future nobody is in any doubt.

And if that's me "having authority" or whatever nonsense then that's fine. I don't believe in people being cheated. That's my personal opinion and I stick by it. If you disagree, that's fine too. At least by discussing it, people can make up their own minds about what they think is the right thing to do, rather than just assume.

[Aadra310]

Anyone ever put a piece of paper with a penciled note in a rehaired / restored pony?  I sell restored ponies on Etsy (and fully disclose what I did) but don’t usually mark them.  I can see how that info might be lost if that person sells it.  Of course, the buyer would still have to ask questions or the seller might never remove the head to check!   Hmmmmm....


I do agree that’s a gorgeous Powder just as she is!

[Safflower]

I think it's a matter of a collectors individual perspective. To you, it's damage. To another person, it's a restoration. It bothers some people and not others, and no side of the argument is right or wrong.

I agree with this. People will have their opinions and collections. We can't impose stuff on others.

@Baby Sugarberry - I'm sorry for what I said and I really don't think that anymore. I know I was wrong to say that and impose. Everyone has a right to collect how they want to. I apologize.

@Aadra310 - That sounds like a good idea! Is there a way we could permanently attach the note? Sorry to be a downer but I'm worried it could get removed...

[Taffeta]

Anyone ever put a piece of paper with a penciled note in a rehaired / restored pony?  I sell restored ponies on Etsy (and fully disclose what I did) but don’t usually mark them.  I can see how that info might be lost if that person sells it.  Of course, the buyer would still have to ask questions or the seller might never remove the head to check!   Hmmmmm....


I do agree that’s a gorgeous Powder just as she is!

I actually thought about that and then thought of the horrible scenario when somehow accidentally Restored Pony gets wet and the paper gets damp and develops mould and then...

Yeah, I got that far in my mental nightmare and decided against suggesting it

[Safflower]

Maybe you could mold a piece of clay, write on that, and glue it to the inside of the body? I'm not too sure that would work, but that way you have a permanent thing without really doing damage?

[SparkleSkye]

Hmm, laminate the paper? Not everyone has a personal laminator but... I do so   
I'm definitely not going to rehair Powder at this point, so no need to worry about her fate.

[Baby Sugarberry]

I'm not there in person so I can't unequivocally say 'Powder shouldn't be rehaired' - as we all know, pictures can and often do make ponies look better than they actually are.  Even if I was, not my pony.  It's up to the OP to make that decision.  That said were she mine, I would initially put her in the 'looks better than average for a 30+ year old toy' category at first glance. There are several shades of white especially in the early ponies and Powder tends to have the not stark white, but more soft white one.  This Powder probably also has some yellowing but they're never brilliant white from what I've seen.

A note inside seems like a good idea but I don't know what it would accomplish that you couldn't tell by checking the ponies insides?  Rehairs (that aren't trying to be a scam i.e. mimic factory weave) are obvious.  A non-collector, and even many collectors, are probably not going to think to look inside a pony for a note unless they suspect a rehair.  At which point the state of the plugs will tell the story pretty clearly.

For me restoration of any kind always has one goal - to make a pony look the way they did originally.  Adding permanent markings anywhere detracts from that goal and is contrary to restoration (again, for me. Your mileage may vary and that's okay!)

@Baby Sugarberry, do not even get me started on the cleaning issues and chemicals and that horrible acne cream disaster. That's even worse in my view, but it's a whole other thread completely to deal with that. BUT it does link to this in a way, since at the time nobody saw an issue with it, nobody marked or noted any ponies that had been treated with the stuff and we all know the result. I don't think this is quite like that.

But this is exactly like that, isn't it?  Something's being done to a pony that isn't obvious at first, but later on has potentially detrimental effects.  So should we ink/carve up every pony that is cleaned?  Clearly no.  I'm not advocating for that!

There are always going to be cases like this.  Undisclosed horrible smells, mould/mildew/rust, marks that were hidden due to the angle of the photograph, lighting that washes out blemishes, etc.  Short of buying ponies in person (and even then!) it can be very difficult to ascertain every possible flaw. 

[Taffeta]

@Baby Sugarberry, do not even get me started on the cleaning issues and chemicals and that horrible acne cream disaster. That's even worse in my view, but it's a whole other thread completely to deal with that. BUT it does link to this in a way, since at the time nobody saw an issue with it, nobody marked or noted any ponies that had been treated with the stuff and we all know the result. I don't think this is quite like that.

But this is exactly like that, isn't it?  Something's being done to a pony that isn't obvious at first, but later on has potentially detrimental effects.  So should we ink/carve up every pony that is cleaned?  Clearly no.  I'm not advocating for that!

It's not the same, because unless there's some hidden evil to rehair material, it's not going to potentially cause a blotch epidemic going forward. And I might not like rehairs, but I'm also not interested in making out it's something that it isn't. The risk here is more about awareness. It is only similar to this in that we won't know for probably some years whether or not rehairing and disclosing is a problem or not, and by the time we know, it will be too late to change it. But rehaired ponies won't need to be quarantined and probably aren't going to wreck collections just by existing.

There are always going to be cases like this.  Undisclosed horrible smells, mould/mildew/rust, marks that were hidden due to the angle of the photograph, lighting that washes out blemishes, etc.  Short of buying ponies in person (and even then!) it can be very difficult to ascertain every possible flaw. 

True, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Although I thought rehairing wasn't a flaw?

I accept you have a completely different perspective on this, but I'll reiterate, I said from the very start that it is a personal decision. My interest is with awareness, NOT with telling anyone what they must do with their ponies.

This isn't specifically directed at Baby Sugarberry but in general, I'd really like it if my words weren't taken out of context any further. I'm not the pony restoration police and we can do without some of the melodrama. Everyone has the right to deal with their ponies as they see fit, but that also extends to a person having the right to reject a rehair and be informed about that rehair as well.

That's all.

[BlackCurtains]

Awareness is as simple as sellers saying 'hey, this pony is rehaired' and buyers asking 'hey, is this pony rehaired?' That's it. That's all you need.

[Taffeta]

Awareness is as simple as sellers saying 'hey, this pony is rehaired' and buyers asking 'hey, is this pony rehaired?' That's it. That's all you need.

In a perfect world, you are completely right.
Of course, if the answer to the buyer's question is "I don't know," then it becomes more complicated. Especially if the seller bought it for $400 and the person she bought it from bought it from someone else as authentic who bought it from someone else who is now no longer active and beyond contacting.

Baby Sugarberry is right that it can be checked by someone who knows what to look for. But there are going to be people who struggle or don't bother to do this or who just assume it's not a rehair because it looks nice.

So yeah, in a perfect world. I don't believe in them :/ Sorry.

Going briefly back to Reverse Gusty - the ones that are authenticated by the community are only recognised as such because some folk have painstakingly recorded the entire ownership history of those ponies and can trace them back to the pre-scam period. That's serious record-keeping but because of it, we know those are real and thus the people who own them feel safe in selling them on or were happy to buy them for significant money because they had that reassurance.

That's a really extreme example, I don't think we need that for every single pony. BUT if the original rehairer disappears or goes inactive then it could cause more problems later on.

As I said, no guarantees it will. But I am British. We are pessimistic by nature. I generally expect trouble >.>

[Jocelyn]

I think the idea of a slip of paper inside is a good one, but can be problematic if it gets wet. And a buyer may never know to look...

Maybe something small and hard would be better? I'm picturing like, a dice or something, that has "rehair" painted on it. It'll rattle around when handled, so any new owner will know to look inside, and they'll see it. Small enough to fit through the neck plug, big enough not to get trapped in a leg. The rattling would force people to investigate, but isn't visible or permanent "damage". It wouldn't stop a scammer from scamming, but at least it would keep the well-intentioned but uninformed people aware. Just a thought.

[kissthethunder]

Taffeta, I'm sorry if anything I said was found to be offensive. I was under the understanding we were no longer really talking about Powder given the general consensus was she is just as she should be so I went on to address the topic being discussed.

I truly thought this was a discussion, that's all. If I contributed to it being otherwise then I give my wholehearted apologies <3 I love these pony people. I was just adding my thoughts and why. 

[Baby Sugarberry]

It was pretty obvious that the discussion had progressed past a specific case and into sweeping generalizations, but I'm not going to keep going when it's pretty clear nothing useful is going to come of it.  People have the right to do as they wish (or not) with their toys, I think we can all agree on that.