Baby Applejack with yellow apples?

[Safflower]

People are always just way way way too eager to say it's a valuable OOAK international Nirvana prototype variation instead of thinking clearly about the fact that children played with their toys outside in the sunshine a lot. 

200Euros is an insane amount of money for a single "regular issue" MLP variation that nothing is known about - too good to be true, IMHO !

This. The possibility of it being a variant is slim. Especially since we have more pictures of her and tbh, she just looks faded.

ColdRuru, I would ask if you could! I'm sure you won't bother her and it definitely isn't for nothing It will probably help us decide if it is a variant or faded.

[Taffeta]

Unfortunately this happens because of people being mote interested in the Nirvana. I don't think the seller or the other community are being misleading...but there are many more explanations that make sense.

It reminds me a bit of the white hair posey thing...

[Baby Sugarberry]

It's more appealing to believe you have a valuable variant, special pony than one that's just damaged or attributable to normal factory variance, so it's not really a surprise when stuff like this crops up.  I don't think it's malicious, just overly optimistic.

There'd be more plausibility of being a variant if some part of that Baby AJ wasn't paler than it should be. You see the same shift in posters that have been exposed in shop windows for a long time.  First the red goes, then the yellow, and finally all that's left is the blue.

[Noasar]

I actually really like the yellow apples. It’s definitely faded.
I once had a Cherries Jubilee pass through my hands whose cherries were so faded they were almost white.

[ColdRuru]

She responded to me (in French) so here's a translation of what she said.
Also, she said she might take new pictures.

I hope this will helps you, also bear in mind it's not myself talking

"First _ faded aren't even, but it's the case with this baby"
"Second _ when a pony fade it's mostly one side, but here the two have exactly the same color tones"
"Third _ the eyes aren't the regular version like a pigment was missing. As a print without all the colors > so it points to a factory error with a missprint or pigment color missing at the end of the product chain"
"Four _ in 20 years of collecting I saw another one like mine on the debuts of ebay."
Five _ I've got a mother AJ with yellow symbol as well, the colors are exactly the same. They should varies a bit if it was faded"

Also she mention she's better on clue for factory errors than variant then. The baby is stamped HK under hoofs.

She promess more picture when she got time and said she might go to open it, but it's difficult to do on HK babies.

[Taffeta]

@ColdRuru - thank you for asking her for more details about her pony.

I went back after reading your post and looked again at the images.

If she does have more photos that would be good, esp with the internal....

Looking again at her IG images, there looks to be mismatch between head and body but I can't tell if that's lighting because the other photos don't show that join.

I actually have no issue with her being paler from factory. Someone mentioned Baby Blossom earlier - there are 2 versions of her in terms of body tone, some very pale lavender which easily fades out to grey and some which are more substantial. With colours like that the mix is going to vary and also how much that dye stays the same colour over time. So the pale body and an even paleness isn't that unbelievable.

The fact she has an adult AJ with the same issue points more to fading of them both than it does disprove it. It would be one thing to suggest that a random variant baby AJ had happened through factory error but mother and baby AJ would have come off different production lines. She doesn't say which AJ, either - but that matters in this case. Do you happen to know?

The more I look at the baby pony, the more I see issues relating to wear and tear. There's some cut mane as well, and the symbols when you really look at them have the slightly grainy texture that often seems to occur on symbols that have begun to wear or fade. Someone mentioned CJ above - CJ has lots of different symbol types, but you can tell with her (and often with Posey, with Tootsie's lollipops, etc) that fading or wear has occurred because of how the symbols look. The colour that fades out in all of these cases is probably the reddish pigment given that we're dealing with orange/red/pink shades in these symbols as well.

Green fading to blue in eye paint, hair, body tone, symbol paint is extremely common. The fact she has both discoloured eyes AND symbol leaves indicated fading. If the leaves on the symbol were green and the apples yellow she'd be a convincing variant candidate.

But while I think her body was probably paler from the start, the rest to me looks like fading/wear/damage over time.

But that doesn't mean she's not a pretty pony

She's a bit discoloured, so yellowish in places, but this is my grey Ember:

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(for what she is supposed to look like, see below:

Spoiler

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That's a considerable difference, so she was probably never as dark in the first place, but she was still a purple ember, even though she really doesn't look like one now.

She is grey all over. Where she isn't grey she is yellow, so any inconsistencies of colour you can see in the image is basically whether she is yellowed or not, not any residual purple. Inside her neckline,  though, you can see the purple. Again, it's the pinkish/red pigment that she's lost, leaving her like Snuzzle in colour.

[banditpony]

I also think it's faded.

I mean the seller can think what she wants, but her logic is off. Especially for fading on one side... Lots of ponies fade all over. Also, it's common for red and yellow to fade (like taffeta says). So it's unlikely that paint color was messed up to begin with.

Green fading to blue in eye paint, hair, body tone, symbol paint is extremely common. The fact she has both discoloured eyes AND symbol leaves indicated fading. If the leaves on the symbol were green and the apples yellow she'd be a convincing variant candidate.

The whole HK thing really just points to why the body color wouldn't be an exact match (different batch of plastic).

[Safflower]

That logic is... Questionable. A Vulcan would have many issues with that. All of the evidence they use either points to fading more than error or doesn't really point anywhere.
1. Faded ponies can be even. A lot of them are, some aren't. (From the pics she looks a bit uneven as well, some parts that usually get wear and tear like ear tips, back of legs look lighter?)
2. Not really true.... Like point one.
3. Pigment color missing? I thought paint was already mixed? And green fades to blue, and this dark green could easily fade to that color blue.
4. Were they different though? This doesn't prove anything except for another one exists?
5. Not necessarily... And that would suggest that the same thing would have to happen which would be missing pigment?

So she is a factory error because she is even, has one color missing and that one color would be the first to fade, and another one exists? Not even mentioning any evidence for the symbol except for the fact they're even? A lot of ponies would be factory errors then.

[lovesbabysquirmy]

So she is a factory error because she is even, has one color missing and that one color would be the first to fade, and another one exists? Not even mentioning any evidence for the symbol except for the fact they're even? A lot of ponies would be factory errors then.

EXACTLY.  MLP are NOT 100% uniformly identical right off the factory line.... they ALL have individual imperfections!  That's because they are made in batches.  each time the workers fire up the vinyl pellet melting machine, they WILL get a different result!

 that's why when you buy a colored paint at the hardware store, they highly suggest buying an extra can for touch-up/repairs, because even if you take that card with the Pantone specs to the paint counter next week, the color will still be slightly different.

there is optimism and there's the reality of manufacturing vinyl toys in a factory.

[CinnamonOnions]

Sorry I cannot help better, I translated to you all I found about this baby when he was introduced to the french community, in fact the owner didn't tell a lot about. But everyone in that forum doesn't doubt of the fact it's a variation also, so no debate there to explain better the case.
I could try to drop a PM in french to the vendor (as you mentionned she's not good with english?)  to ask for explanation on why she pointed on a variant instead of a sunfading? In fact, it can help her own sale if people agreed on what's her pony is, no?
Let me know what you thinks, I just don't want to bother her for nothing

It's okay, it was already greatly helpful to have close ups and the professional owners opinion! No matter what the ponys owner does, we really never can be certain is she an error or faded or both! 
(I could try too, as I'm currently purchasing a few ponies from her actualy, but I've understood her english is not too great?) That would be greatly nice though! You are very much correct there!
I could always attempt to ask myself in english since I'm anyways discussing a purchase from her and currently waiting for additional pictures of what I'm buying.

Post Merge: June 23, 2018, 10:55:03 AM

People are always just way way way too eager to say it's a valuable OOAK international Nirvana prototype variation instead of thinking clearly about the fact that children played with their toys outside in the sunshine a lot. 

200Euros is an insane amount of money for a single "regular issue" MLP variation that nothing is known about - too good to be true, IMHO !

Sadly that as well tends to happen. (Though this one is not nirvana, most likely an error if not faded)
That is true. In this case no-one just has seen before a baby Applejack with this smoothly yellow apples, and the owner herself is a professional collector, so I quess it's keeping the debate up and running!

Yeah it is a bit pricey, wich I why I said no-one should get too excited of this one.

Post Merge: June 23, 2018, 11:00:14 AM

Unfortunately this happens because of people being mote interested in the Nirvana. I don't think the seller or the other community are being misleading...but there are many more explanations that make sense.

It reminds me a bit of the white hair posey thing...

I agree a lot. The pony is an open for debate mystery, that we'll never know of for certain. This isn't like the cases of a reverse colored mane Gusty that is too obviously an error, or non-plastic ponies that are obvious prototypes, or even like certain flutters (hmmh Forget Me Not especialy) that are known to have wide differences between each other.

Oh dear, has there in earlier communitys days been a debate of that as well? It's hard to imagine nowadays. Maybe this one too will be solved by more faded ones surfacing.

Post Merge: June 23, 2018, 11:01:41 AM

I actually really like the yellow apples. It’s definitely faded.
I once had a Cherries Jubilee pass through my hands whose cherries were so faded they were almost white.

Oh really? Thanks for telling! It always adds up proof to have cases you can compare on.

Post Merge: June 23, 2018, 11:03:33 AM

She responded to me (in French) so here's a translation of what she said.
Also, she said she might take new pictures.

I hope this will helps you, also bear in mind it's not myself talking

"First _ faded aren't even, but it's the case with this baby"
"Second _ when a pony fade it's mostly one side, but here the two have exactly the same color tones"
"Third _ the eyes aren't the regular version like a pigment was missing. As a print without all the colors > so it points to a factory error with a missprint or pigment color missing at the end of the product chain"
"Four _ in 20 years of collecting I saw another one like mine on the debuts of ebay."
Five _ I've got a mother AJ with yellow symbol as well, the colors are exactly the same. They should varies a bit if it was faded"

Also she mention she's better on clue for factory errors than variant then. The baby is stamped HK under hoofs.

She promess more picture when she got time and said she might go to open it, but it's difficult to do on HK babies.

Thank you so much!!! ❤ it's all I can even say!

Post Merge: June 23, 2018, 11:09:07 AM

@ColdRuru - thank you for asking her for more details about her pony.

I went back after reading your post and looked again at the images.

If she does have more photos that would be good, esp with the internal....

Looking again at her IG images, there looks to be mismatch between head and body but I can't tell if that's lighting because the other photos don't show that join.

I actually have no issue with her being paler from factory. Someone mentioned Baby Blossom earlier - there are 2 versions of her in terms of body tone, some very pale lavender which easily fades out to grey and some which are more substantial. With colours like that the mix is going to vary and also how much that dye stays the same colour over time. So the pale body and an even paleness isn't that unbelievable.

The fact she has an adult AJ with the same issue points more to fading of them both than it does disprove it. It would be one thing to suggest that a random variant baby AJ had happened through factory error but mother and baby AJ would have come off different production lines. She doesn't say which AJ, either - but that matters in this case. Do you happen to know?

The more I look at the baby pony, the more I see issues relating to wear and tear. There's some cut mane as well, and the symbols when you really look at them have the slightly grainy texture that often seems to occur on symbols that have begun to wear or fade. Someone mentioned CJ above - CJ has lots of different symbol types, but you can tell with her (and often with Posey, with Tootsie's lollipops, etc) that fading or wear has occurred because of how the symbols look. The colour that fades out in all of these cases is probably the reddish pigment given that we're dealing with orange/red/pink shades in these symbols as well.

Green fading to blue in eye paint, hair, body tone, symbol paint is extremely common. The fact she has both discoloured eyes AND symbol leaves indicated fading. If the leaves on the symbol were green and the apples yellow she'd be a convincing variant candidate.

But while I think her body was probably paler from the start, the rest to me looks like fading/wear/damage over time.

But that doesn't mean she's not a pretty pony

She's a bit discoloured, so yellowish in places, but this is my grey Ember:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


(for what she is supposed to look like, see below:

Spoiler

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

That's a considerable difference, so she was probably never as dark in the first place, but she was still a purple ember, even though she really doesn't look like one now.

She is grey all over. Where she isn't grey she is yellow, so any inconsistencies of colour you can see in the image is basically whether she is yellowed or not, not any residual purple. Inside her neckline,  though, you can see the purple. Again, it's the pinkish/red pigment that she's lost, leaving her like Snuzzle in colour.

Thank you for the in detail examination again, Taffeta!
Oh and the adult Apple Jack is Hong Kong marked as well.
You bring up a lot of good points, that have been greatly useful. I think we all can say at this point that it's most likely fading, just an unusualy beautiful one!
Also thank you for bringing up comparisons of your already pale but faded Ember.

[Taffeta]

Back in the late 1990s, it was one of the many false rumours about UK ponies. But the community then was not quite like now in terms of how global it was. There were only a few of us from the UK involved and not many from Europe either, one or two from Australia maybe. And a lot of rumours about what existed in other countries with a handful of us working really hard to clarify the real from the myth. White hair posey was one of those rumours because she comes up often. Her hair and symbols can fade completely to white.

Reverse Gusty is also a contentious one because there were a number of scams of people creating fake ones to sell as real. There are maybe three real ones in existence that we can prove are real? But there have been many other fakes over the years. The ones which are accepted as real have been subjected to a lot of investigation and I think they also have a paper trail of ownership right back to them first being found. Chemical tests have also been done on suspected fakes, to prove the wrong kind of glue even on very good ones.

Basically for something to be a batch variant there's not a lot of fuss about proving it, because the pony isn't worth any more money for being slightly different in symbol or body tone. But if it's supposed to be a rare variant OOAK nirvana type, then generally it gets subjected to much more enquiry. Partly, I suppose, because of scams like the white hair posey one and the Reverse Gusty one. In both those cases people paid a lot of money for something that wasn't a variant. When large amounts of money are involved, then it can't really be a debate - it needs to be for sure, if that makes sense?

Again, I don't think this seller is trying to mislead anyone. She clearly believes in her pony. I just don't personally believe it's a variant.

My question about AJ was not about the country but the pose. It matters in terms of the release timeline and thus production.

It's already quite unlikely that an adult and a baby AJ out of all others would manage to get through the production line with the wrong colour symbol and then randomly find their way to the house of the same collector. If there are lots of them, then that's different - but if there are only one or two, it's pretty unlikely. BUT if the AJ adult comes from a completely different release year, it's next to impossible to make that connection. That would leave fading as pretty much the only explanation...so that's why I asked.

[Safflower]

Honestly, this "professional collector" has serious errors in logic and if the best evidence they can come up with all points to fading, I don't think there's much of a debate left. Them being a "professional collector" doesn't mean squat to me, but it seems like it does to members of that other board. All of the evidence points to fading (though some of it could be interpreted as error). Though I don't think they are trying to mislead anyone.

This is a lot like white haired Posey...

[CinnamonOnions]

Back in the late 1990s, it was one of the many false rumours about UK ponies. But the community then was not quite like now in terms of how global it was. There were only a few of us from the UK involved and not many from Europe either, one or two from Australia maybe. And a lot of rumours about what existed in other countries with a handful of us working really hard to clarify the real from the myth. White hair posey was one of those rumours because she comes up often. Her hair and symbols can fade completely to white.

Reverse Gusty is also a contentious one because there were a number of scams of people creating fake ones to sell as real. There are maybe three real ones in existence that we can prove are real? But there have been many other fakes over the years. The ones which are accepted as real have been subjected to a lot of investigation and I think they also have a paper trail of ownership right back to them first being found. Chemical tests have also been done on suspected fakes, to prove the wrong kind of glue even on very good ones.

Basically for something to be a batch variant there's not a lot of fuss about proving it, because the pony isn't worth any more money for being slightly different in symbol or body tone. But if it's supposed to be a rare variant OOAK nirvana type, then generally it gets subjected to much more enquiry. Partly, I suppose, because of scams like the white hair posey one and the Reverse Gusty one. In both those cases people paid a lot of money for something that wasn't a variant. When large amounts of money are involved, then it can't really be a debate - it needs to be for sure, if that makes sense?

Again, I don't think this seller is trying to mislead anyone. She clearly believes in her pony. I just don't personally believe it's a variant.

My question about AJ was not about the country but the pose. It matters in terms of the release timeline and thus production.

It's already quite unlikely that an adult and a baby AJ out of all others would manage to get through the production line with the wrong colour symbol and then randomly find their way to the house of the same collector. If there are lots of them, then that's different - but if there are only one or two, it's pretty unlikely. BUT if the AJ adult comes from a completely different release year, it's next to impossible to make that connection. That would leave fading as pretty much the only explanation...so that's why I asked.

Ah I understand. Internet was fairly new, and the pony community as it is was young, right?
Yeah I can understand that. And I only can imagine the mess of getting the g1 MLP info to it's current point especialy with the wild amount of variants and exclusives - I have often noticed when trying to identify vintage toys out of my collection range that there might not be any kind of info compilation at all, it all depends suddenly on Google image search results!
Understandable, very understandable.

Ahh, no surprise really. Especialy when the authentic one sold for +1000$, if the rumors I heard were right?
That's really wild, yet worth appreciating, though. The community sure has a lot of determination to go that far for the sake of telling apart fakes. And that determination is certainly needed to keep the uniqueness and value of the authentic ones.

Definetly not, more minor variations often tend to get unnoticed or instantly accepted as flaws. (Like I did when seeing a moldy Blossom with bright green plastic in certain parts) Wich is why it doesn't affect the value either, as you said.
You definetly are correct there! True indeed. People are more careful now, not anything anymore gets accepted as an authentic variant or error, wich is a good thing. I agree very much with you.

Yeah I agree on that as well. The seller is definetly not any kind of scammer and has authentic, very rare pony items on sale as well, so it's certainly just a case of strong belief.

Ah! It's the basic shy pose Apple Jack. I think I've seen those with yellow apples more (if I remember correct), wich makes me certain it atleast is merely a result of fading.

I agree a lot in there. My opinion would stand as the adult ones being certainly faded, but the baby being almost certainly, but notably less certainly than with the adult one, being faded.
Again, I understand what you mean.

Post Merge: June 23, 2018, 01:31:07 PM

Honestly, this "professional collector" has serious errors in logic and if the best evidence they can come up with all points to fading, I don't think there's much of a debate left. Them being a "professional collector" doesn't mean squat to me, but it seems like it does to members of that other board. All of the evidence points to fading (though some of it could be interpreted as error). Though I don't think they are trying to mislead anyone.

This is a lot like white haired Posey...

And honestly I mainly assumed them to be a professional due to them having collected for 20 years.
True, though there might be things lost in translation. I suppose so, though.
Mostly yes, but at the same time the slim chance of this being an odd error or a faded error pony exists. But the chance is indeed slim.
I agree there.

In a way, yes: similar case of missing information leaving only common sense to figure out the truth, and the truth being fading.

[Taffeta]

It might freak you out but there are a lot of people in this community who have been collecting for more than 20 years xD. And there are also people who have been less time but who have accrued knowledge and experience, as well as those who have been collecting for ages but only casually. I guess my point is that we don't separate ourselves by length of time vs knowledge. We all have things we know stuff about and things we don't, I guess?

Re: Applejack - thank you. Then it probably must be fading. The shy pose AJ came out the year before baby AJ, who was part of the same release year as collector pose AJ. I'm not ruling out potential crossover, but it just reduces the likelihood of this being a variation again. It would be a very big coincidence, let's just leave it at that.

All of this doesn't remove the fact that she actually looks very cute with those symbols though. Just not €200 worth of cute. Although I remember the first baby AJ ever to appear on ebay sold for $300 xD.

[Safflower]

It might freak you out but there are a lot of people in this community who have been collecting for more than 20 years xD. And there are also people who have been less time but who have accrued knowledge and experience, as well as those who have been collecting for ages but only casually. I guess my point is that we don't separate ourselves by length of time vs knowledge. We all have things we know stuff about and things we don't, I guess?

Exactly! I don't know anything about this person and what they know. Just because you have ponies doesn't mean you know about them. Also, saying professional collector makes it sound like a job