German names for Sundae Best Ponies?

[Taffeta]

I think the problem is people have leapt from the US line to Nirvana and skipped over the UK and different European releases with the most basic of info in a lot of cases (ie, not sold in US, must be UK. UK is in Europe, must be Europe, Europe and the UK are the same thing right? O.o Let's just use those interchangeably...)

. This is the area I am most interested in, though. It began with 1986, which is an insane year for variations in sets, etc. But right now I'm the only person trying to put ponies together in terms of their sets rather than this artifical division of "US" and "foreign" which worked in 1996 but doesn't really work any more now we know so much more about ponies. And on a personal level I get offended when people call ponies I grew up with and bought here "US" ponies, when they're clearly not :/. And I know there are a lot of people from other European countries who also get offended when ponies they grew up with are termed UK ponies. And so on. As if we aren't all separate countries with our own identities and corporate decisions when it comes to things like MLP distribution Now EU distribution is mostly the same for G4 (not entirely) BUT in G1, not so much. The EU has changed a lot over the past 3 decades.

But all of that makes all the differences in Europe SO INTERESTING to me. I also don't believe in segregating UK and Europe out like they have some kind of contagious disease and need quarantining xD. And the more I look at that the more I realise how individual lines are between countries. Just because Mimic wasn't sold in the UK or in most European countries, she was sold in Italy. Just because Gypsy and Honeycomb were sold in the UK, they weren't sold in France or Germany as far as I can tell. And so on.

I love that Europe is more diverse. To be frank the US line is easy to understand and full of gorgeous ponies, but surprisingly dull in terms of mysteries and variations. And when there is one, most people don't seem that bothered so don't even notice it.

So the comics have proper names for them. Hrm O.o. I haven't looked at the odd one or two Finnish comics I have for ages, but now I'm curious as well Unfortunately getting my comics down means causing a pony avalanche in my wardrobe and that isn't good - several ponies live on top of the comic folders

I've also seen the G2s with those card languages on.

[pikkupapupata]

I think that's an excellent explanation of something I've noticed as well, but wasn't quite sure how to articulate. I try, especially now, not to use 'US release' as a blanket term, but something else more generic or neutral like 'wide release' for 'US' ponies that were widely available around the globe, not just in the US. I could use 'US release' if there are truly any ponies that were only available in the US, but none come to mind that I know of. I thought some of the mail orders might fall under this category, but I'd imagine that they'd also have been available in Canada as well, so they can't be 'US releases'. I don't know for sure, but it would make sense to me if this were so. 'US release' would only make sense to me if it were to describe something about that particular release of a particular pony, not to denote exclusivity of that pony within the US and nowhere else.

I love the variety of releases around the world, within and amongst different countries, and Europe has so many, it is really fascinating. When I go pony hunting/shopping, I always look for regional varieties, usually specifically around Europe, before the widely-released ones because of this fascination.

Yep, as far as I could see (some of the photos were just fuzzy enough that I couldn't make out the name, but could get an idea from sentence structure and dialogue markers), there are G1 Finnish pony names. I'll have to do some digging around Instagram and the internet to try to find the photos that I've seen, but I remember making a mental note of it as something to revisit. I'm supposed to be doing schoolwork, but I'd much rather do that. 

A pony avalanche sounds heavenly, but I imagine in reality would be quite jarring and painful. Be careful if you decide to fetch your comics. 

It's interesting, I've never quite thought about the trend of separating the UK from the rest of Europe until just now...and not with ponies, just in general, it happens a lot...I think it's a language thing, like a subconscious anglophone-centric filter or bias, as well as a historical-ties thing. Somehow, at least from a possible US perspective, the UK and Republic of Ireland seem separate from the rest of Europe, I think because of a perception of more closeness, similarity, accessibility, and the like. But once you venture elsewhere into Europe, things start to become more 'foreign', more 'European', English becomes less dominant, customs may seem to differ more, and then there's a skewed perception that leads to unnecessary referencing habits. Hmmmm...

[Taffeta]

It is a lot more complex. I remember a while back we had a discussion and a couple of Canadian collectors pointed out that they weren't totally sure if they had everything the same as the US. It's true Canada has Commonwealth connections that the US doesn't, and that some odd things occasionally show up there. South Africa, New Zealand and Australia, not to mention Malaysia and Singapore also all have Commonwealth connections and all had some ponies that are thought of as European, so it's not beyond the bounds of possibility. We really don't know. Nobody is researching Canada particularly.

The more I look the more I find in terms of minor variations. The years around 1991-1992 are a whole minefield, as are the years where manufacture switched largely from HK to China. Sigh.

I don't really want a pony avalanche any time soon xD My comics are staying put

The UK/Europe thing goes way back I think to ancient history. Traditionally we fought a lot of wars with France, Spain etc and other mainland countries. It's also because we're an island and a little bit antisocial. So we are European and at the same time, not. It's also like we're a country and at the same time, four countries.

It sounds from the little I know like Ireland had some differences in the MLP line from the UK. But again, nobody seems to really be studying Ireland, either.

I would say there are big cultural differences between many of Europe's countries or regions...and also big cultural differences between the US and the UK, like between Canada and the US or Australia or anywhere else. BUT the similar language makes communication easier. English and American English are not entirely the same, of course - and I think the pony names and stories sometimes reflect those cultural and linguistic differences. I have Japanese friends who learn American English and then tell me how much more difficult they find British English, even though in many ways British English is more similar to Japanese in terms of being indirect to be polite - and that it's harder for a Japanese person to pronounce words the American way compared to the English way xD. It made me really think about the differences more.

I haven't visited all of Europe but of all the places I did visit, the place that was most culturally relateable to me as a British person in terms of how things worked was Denmark even though I don't speak Danish.

This thread has become very geeky but still interesting

[pikkupapupata]

I'm more and more curious about MLP around the world now, like how far-reaching it was for G1s, and what ones went where. Maybe I'll be able to find some information out when I begin my names quest, even if it's only just a tidbit.

I did some light searching, and was finally able to find some clearer photos of Finnish comic pages, as well as one photo of character cards. I'm working on making sure I have the names matched with the proper ponies, and translating them if I can. So far I've got Ylhäisyys for Majesty ('Highness'), Piikki for Spike ('spike'), Kuutamoinen for Moondancer ('moonlit, [of or relating to] moonlight'), Ihaa-na and Pikku Ihaa-na for Glory and Baby Glory (not sure what they mean), Kirsikkainen for Cherries Jubilee ('[of or relating to] cherry'), and Jätski for Lickety-Split (colloquial word for ice cream). I've got a small list going that I'm playing with on breaks from schoolwork. I think Masquerade is Ilveilijätär, and the word has something to do with theatre or being a clown or something, but I'm not quite sure how to translate it or why that word was chosen. 
I've no idea how common it was/is to use these names over English names, but I do enjoy that they exist!
Swedish is proving more difficult; I found one photo with part of a book page in the background, and the only name I was able to make out was Glory. So Glory may be Glory in Swedish. Still hunting. Haven't started on any others...yet. 

That's interesting that your Japanese friends found British English more difficult, because I think US English is just bonkers and pretty 'all over the place'; I don't like it too much, actually, even though it's what I know best. I think I never had a good fundamental grasp of English until I started learning French in school; something there made everything 'click' all of a sudden. I ended up learning more about English as a language, and found out that US English is just one variety in the whole of English. British English actually makes a lot more sense to me. Years back, I found out about spelling and vocabulary differences amongst all of the varieties of English, and found that I favour Commonwealth, particularly UK, (for lack of a better term) spellings, and started using them. Now I don't even really think about them and they're my default, though I probably have some US spellings still sprinkled in that I don't catch. I've gotten into arguments with people trying to 'correct' my spelling; one I think was over organise/organize, and I had to explain to them one, it's not 'incorrect', it's a standard and accepted spelling, and two, I don't like how common 'z' is in words, especially those of French origin, and 's' is much nicer to me and had no reason to be changed to 'z'. They eventually left me alone. Vocabulary is trickier; I predominantly use US common vocabulary (I'll say trunk and not boot, truck and not lorry, crib and not cot, things like that) but I like to know the variations because it's fun. My sentence structure can vary, even in speech too, not just writing. It depends on my surroundings; sometimes I start to mimic how others speak without realising, sometimes I stick with what I like and what makes sense, even if it differs from common speaking behaviours here. It's interesting this kind of hybrid system I've developed for myself, but it's made speaking and writing much easier for me over time. South Africa has my absolute favourite English accent, though, trilled r's and non-trilled r's.

I can't wait to visit any of the Nordic countries; everything I read or see about them seems so lovely, and they make so much sense from afar, at least. I want to see them in person, if I'm not too overwhelmed by sheer joy to function.

And yes, I am thoroughly enjoying this thread! 

[Taffeta]

Just a sidenote - I found this:
https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luettelo_My_Little_Pony_-sarjan_poneista

There are also a few Finnish collectors around here though who will probably be the best experts on the names.

In regards to where things are sold...honestly, for me it all kind of begun by accident.

If DV had bothered to correct its mistakes when asked, I would never have even started a website.

At that time there was so much muddled info about where things came from that I had to deal with that head on and identify, no, that pony wasn't sold in the UK, or yes, it was...

And it kind of grew from there. All the different backcards and different variants also became interesting. Most people have forgotten that the first place to have Italian, Indian, Japanese, French, NC and Brazilian ponies listed was my website, basically because nowhere else had them. Since now there are proper experts on Nirvana, I don't have them on my site any more - but all of that was part of the same thing - finding out names, releases, etc by trading with people in Europe back when there were few UK people and fewer European ones. All my loose NC ponies came from France, so I knew that NC Spanish ponies were sold in France because of that. The only Spanish ponies I have from Spain are the 2 MOC Rainbow Ponies, Molinillo and Rocio...but I know they were sold on the same cards now in France, even though the ponies themselves appear to be slightly different between places.

I also remember studying obsessively the US inserts when I realised that the US did the smart thing and drew ponies on inserts up till 1987 in their actual poses. UK never did this, but once I realised that I remember sitting and identifying all the pearly baby sea ponies that were different and discovered that basically aside Beachcomber the whole set was different.

The biggest problem with those kinds of realisation, though, is the "why did that happen" question. Why change the whole set? I haven't found much evidence that the set of pearlies we had in the UK were sold across Europe. I have 2 pearly baby sea ponies on Dutch/French card which is the US artwork and US version, but I haven't ever seen a translated version of the UK card.

Going back to the starting point of this thread (so the mods don't come and close it for being off topic xD), the Sundae Best are a law unto themselves in English. They are one of my least liked sets but I can't help being fascinated by all the weird errors/changes in their production and promotion.

I'll spoiler tag it for conciseness of the post, as its enough to make brains hurt.

Spoiler

As I mentioned before, the name Sundae Best was used for the set in the UK, although initially they were promoted as Ice Cream ponies, which matches the German (as mentioned).

The UK cards for this set have the same artwork on the back as the US ones do, but the front has an orange border around the edges. For some reason Hasbro did this kind of minor alteration to a few sets :/
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(image from LadyG).

The first insert with them on over here is dated 1987 but it is actually a later print of the 1988 insert which includes them for the first time - maybe in place of the SUmmer Wings, I can't remember off the top of my head. This is where they are called Ice Cream Ponies and advertised to have hairclips. Neither of these things is true, as the clips were not sold with the ponies over here, only the comb/brush and ribbon. The insert also mismatches the names, which was reflected in the comic as well to begin with.

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Or is this actually a mismatch? Promotional material from the US for this set reveals a MOC image of the pony I know as Sorbet Surprise and you guys know as Sherbet. The card says clearly "Cherry Berry" as the pony's name. On the first UK insert, this same pony is labelled Cherry Berry. It seems probable that this name is NOT originally a UK name, but was from the US line, and was initially meant for that pony.

Somewhere along the line the name got shifted to the pony you guys call Crunch Berry, and got dropped from the line completely in the US. It's one piece of circumstantial evidence that suggests not all UK names were UK in origin.

Further to the above, the US cards are inconsistent with how they display the names of this set. Half of them are in capitals and half are not. Interestingly, the ones in capitals are mostly those which have different names in the US from the UK. Peppermint Crunch and Banana Surprise are not capitalised. The exception is I think Coco Berry which is also not capitalised. Swirly Whirly, Sherbert and that name Crunch Berry are all capitalised. I do not know of any other set with this naming inconsistency.
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(images from Wiki)
The three that are capitalised are the three which are named the wrong way around in the catalogue, suggesting a change of idea. It's not visible in this image from the Wiki, but the MOC pony in the image is the one which bears the name Cherry Berry, although that name does not feature on the image of them loose.
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The second insert in the UK that features this set correctly refers to them as Sundae Best and has the names in the right order.
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It doesn't mention clips but uses the backcard art. At this point, they are no longer on sale in America, as this is 1989. And everything in the comic also stabilises. From this point, it all seems to make sense.

What I do not have, unfortunately, is a catalogue from 1988-1989 to find out how they are named originally in the UK release.

This set has so many changes and contradictions it makes me wonder exactly what was going on at a creative level, why they couldn't get the fonts consistent in the US, why they dropped Cherry Berry there but not here and why there were so many problems fixing on which pony had which name.

So, when asking about the German names for this set (and let's not forget that not only do we have 2 variant German ponies in this set, we also have a full set made in HK and a full set made in China as well), it is interesting to hear the exact meanings. Both Chocolate Chip and Cherry Berry bear closer resemblance to the German name, whereas Waffelchen is not really like either Butter Kiss or Swirly Whirly. It's not possible I don't think to gain clues about what was going on in Hasbro's mind in the English market from looking at the German names - except that the name for Sherbet/Sorbet Surprise relates to grapes, which is also how her character was written in the comic as well.

Sherbet/Sorbet Surprise also seems to be a cultural name change, as Sherbet has a different meaning here, and I think the US version of sherbet is what we call Sorbet.

And there you have it.

The biggest thing I've learned about MLP in the last couple of decades is that a lot of the time, the little things don't make sense. But a lot of the time, the little things tell us the most.

[pikkupapupata]

Oh good, more fun distractions from work!! That's amazing; I'm going to study that list and add it to my images folder. Thank you!

And yes, back on the original topic! (Sorry, I didn't intend to hijack the post, I just love discussing all of these things and don't often have the chance to do so, and got a bit lost in it all. Thank you for discussing with me. )

Now that I've seen the visuals here, and your breakdown, I see better all of the little details and differences, and how the names really are so varied (especially Swirly Whirly/Butter Kiss/Waffelchen). I'm very fascinated as well, and am wishing I had cards, boxes, pamphlets, and the like of my own to study and ponder.

I wonder if we'll ever find out the inner-workings of Hasbro during the era better to understand how all of these particularities and differences came about.

I wish they had kept Cherry Berry; I don't personally like cherries all that much, but the name is cute!

Pfefferminzi is the best name, I think, from this set. I wonder what she would have looked like had she had a German variant as well?

And yeah, for some reason over here, sherbet [sometimes spelt and pronounced 'sherbert'] is sometimes used synonymously with sorbet, even though the technical difference is that sherbet is supposed to have some butterfat - thus, dairy - and sorbet is dairy-free. I think sherbet is more popular here, so I can see why the name would change regionally.

[Taffeta]

Just to add to the ongoing identity crisis of this set in the UK
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No, you're not. You're Cherry Berry -.-

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Apparently the surprise is that you're not Sorbet Surprise at all, but Chocolate Chip O.O

The cards are beautiful for the artwork but they also reveal a lot of clues and details as well. I think that is part of my fascination with them

Also, though it's a scrappy piece of ripped card, this is the example I mentioned of mixed up printing in the 1993 year, with the Rollerskates. Which maybe explains a wider problem seen with the German family ponies. The names are all one degree off. Melody is now Hip Hop, Jazzie is now Melody and Hip Hop is now Jazzie. I have a couple of box remains with that mismatched name situation going on.

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BUT it is not a uniform mistake. My sister's Hip Hop box is correct:

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So as I said, backcards are great. But they can't always be trusted...

[pikkupapupata]

My goodness, they all seem to need some therapy or something. 

This also goes to show how important it is to revise and edit one's work, Hasbro. It's just seeming like laziness or something on their part, to an extent. It's quite comical, though!

[pinkkittywinks]

Now why did I not think to check the Gallery? *facepalm* Thanks If someone can confirm those are their real names (which they probably are, since PKW wouldn't allow it any other way) then I can finally amend my record.

Indeed, I double, triple, quadruple checked the names with leaflets, magazine adverts, backcards and German collectors

Love pkw xxx 

[Taffeta]

Now why did I not think to check the Gallery? *facepalm* Thanks If someone can confirm those are their real names (which they probably are, since PKW wouldn't allow it any other way) then I can finally amend my record.

Indeed, I double, triple, quadruple checked the names with leaflets, magazine adverts, backcards and German collectors

Love pkw xxx 

*grovels*

[pinkkittywinks]

No need to grovel

Just to confirm, the advert I got the names from actually showed pictures of the alternate hair colour on the ponies alongside that I've got scans of the language German backcard and leaflets.

There are alternative names for some ponies in the German comic stories AND some ponies would switch genders (TE Sweetie I believe)

Confusing much? Like you said, backwards, leaflets and other paperwork can't always be trusted.

Love pkw xxx

PS I've got plenty more names to add to the gallery at some point.

[Taffeta]

I think there are so many small details we overlook that would resolve so many questions and yet open up many many more. Inconsistent naming goes back to the issue of Baby Stella and Baby Night Song which I am reliably informed by Chrissytree (who does know stuff like that and whose evidence is compelling as it is backed up by MOC ponies) should be labelled the other way around than how we do label them. The trouble is the comic labelled them the way around that we do think of them. I am responsible for the common naming of those ponies as white/night song and orange/stella and I hold up my hands to it as I only had the comic to work from as a kid, I never had the ponies or saw them.

Now on my page I basically say either name is correct, because it is. But the inconsistency in Germany makes me wonder if there were wider problems with this kind of stuff that had knock on implications like this.

Adult Hopscotch being Hopser and baby being Hopsi is one that has always got me, as well as Posey being Bloemen and Baby Buttons being Baby Bloemen. (I know there's an umlaut but I'm lazy >.>) The US equivalent would be Moondancer/Baby Moondreamer I suppose.

[pinkkittywinks]

I think there are so many small details we overlook that would resolve so many questions and yet open up many many more. Inconsistent naming goes back to the issue of Baby Stella and Baby Night Song which I am reliably informed by Chrissytree (who does know stuff like that and whose evidence is compelling as it is backed up by MOC ponies) should be labelled the other way around than how we do label them. The trouble is the comic labelled them the way around that we do think of them. I am responsible for the common naming of those ponies as white/night song and orange/stella and I hold up my hands to it as I only had the comic to work from as a kid, I never had the ponies or saw them.

Now on my page I basically say either name is correct, because it is. But the inconsistency in Germany makes me wonder if there were wider problems with this kind of stuff that had knock on implications like this.

Adult Hopscotch being Hopser and baby being Hopsi is one that has always got me, as well as Posey being Bloemen and Baby Buttons being Baby Bloemen. (I know there's an umlaut but I'm lazy >.>) The US equivalent would be Moondancer/Baby Moondreamer I suppose.

Yes There are a lot of name "inconsistencies" between adults and babies as regards names, but also the names for one pony can vary in the comics, leaflets and backcards.

I have head Baby Buttons being called both Baby Knöpfchen and Baby Blümchen (in a leaflet and on backcard). Also firsttooth Baby Lickety Split (Baby-Frosty) has a different name to Play and Care Baby Lickety Split (Düsenflieger )

I know for a fact that the Italy ponies have relationships that were "Aunty, Uncle and Cousin" and "Baby Sitter" instead of "Mummy and Baby" this played out in the stories about the ponies Characters were male and female rather than being all/predominantly female.

I am pretty sure that other "family" relationships between the characters were different in other European countrys as well. Greece in particular jumps out as the Greek babies didn't get names, this was due to it being Greek tradition that a Baby wasn't named until it was a year old at it's Christening.

Love pkw xxx

[Taffeta]

Hrm. Interesting. Both the booklet I have (the 1987 one that also says Himmelsturmer) and the backcard I have for Baby CJ call her Baby Blümchen but I have seen her listed on ebay under the other name. So that means there's another leaflet out there with that name on it??

I love the idea of babysitter ponies Why was that never a thing??

[pinkkittywinks]

I've got a scan of that booklet as well as well as the drawn leaflet and backcard.

In my papers there wasn't a note of where I got the Baby Knöpfchen name from (whhhhhhhhhhy? I made a note of all the other alternate names sources)  I wouldn't have included it unless it was from an "aboveboard" source.

I've seen her listed under the Baby Knöpfchen name on eBay as well, again I doubt it would be so commonly used unless it was "given" at some point.

I'll check my other papers and images.

Love pkw xxx