UK Pony guide???

[PrincessNikki]

I have the G1 book/price guide for all the US releases, but is there a guide for UK only G1 releases? I keep seeing ponies I have never seen on Ebay and I want to know if the prices are fair or where they came from.

Also is there a nirvana guide?

[heftysmurf76]

Debra Birge/Gypsy has an international MLP G1 book, but it doesn't have a comprehensive amount of pics like Summers books do....if you search her on Amazon you will find her book....there's also Strawberry reef

http://www.strawberryreef.com/Index/G1/Country/us.html

[Taffeta]

My website is the only properly G1 ID page that specialises in dealing with the UK release. It's been around since 1998, and with the help of a lot of other UK people, I'd like to say it's pretty comprehensive for UK information.

It also puts the UK line in proper context with all the other ponies available both here and overseas, so it's clear what was sold when and in which sets and where there are variations between the two. (And UK names, comic stuff, backcard info, etc).

http://www.etherella.com/scrapbook2/

 I don't do pricing, though. It fluctuates too much and that isn't really the point of my site. I think Bluerose's (?) guide may be better for that although the Arena's PC archives might also help you check out current market trends. Websites are better than printed resources for up to date pricing.

The Wiki has a lot of UK info too but again, in context with the rest of the pony line. In this sense Wiki might actually be too big because of the sheer amount of ponies it works hard to include.

Please do not ever use Strawberry Reef for G1 UK pony identification. It is no longer updated and still contains some elementary errors inherited from the now defunct Dream Valley. DV was a trailblazer for US information, but it devastated the transmission of accurate UK information for a long time, meaning that it also influenced a lot of other sites to copy its mistakes.

This may sound harsh but having spent so much of my 20 years in this community debunking myths invented by websites that don't update about UK pony release, I'd really like to ask that people begin with the proper information rather than relying on out of date websites that are no longer being maintained or updated/corrected.

I don't have Summer's book on international ponies but I would imagine the prices are now well out of date.

If the other book you mention is the one I think and not a more recent version then it also contains errors, probably influenced also by DV.

[heftysmurf76]

My website is the only properly G1 ID page that specialises in dealing with the UK release. It's been around since 1998, and with the help of a lot of other UK people, I'd like to say it's pretty comprehensive for UK information.
 
Please do not ever use Strawberry Reef for G1 UK pony identification.

This may sound harsh but having spent so much of my 20 years in this community debunking myths invented by websites that don't update about UK pony release, I'd really like to ask that people begin with the proper information rather than relying on out of date websites that are no longer being maintained or updated/corrected.

Wow Taffeta, I had never encountered your site before, I will express some apology for suggesting Strawberry reef, however I have to say that its a bit more user friendly for quick reference. As a visual learner, I find it easier to use. It may be out of date and Inaccurate but its what I have been using for my UK collecting since I started over 3 years ago and until now I haven't had an issue with thinking it was not helpful...

My approach to UK collecting is this: I want the ponies that I don't already have; meaning the ones that were ONLY released in the UK...Strawberry reefs visual account, to me is easier to navigate and take account from as a quick reference to start this type of collecting...I personally don't need every variant of a pony (for example, I don't need 87 Poseys in my collection, One regular and one so soft is fine enough for me). Your site presents EVERY release and to me thats not as helpful as just showing me what I don't already have...

Please don't get me wrong, I'm in no way saying Strawberry reef is superior to your site (not by a long shot) , however its a quick fix when I am/was searching a pony I didn't recognize...Your site is comprehensive to say the least and I will certainly suggest it in the future, but for someone new to just asking about UK ponies, I have to say that it would be quite overwhelming

I hope you in no way take this as a slight, I simply am expressing my own experience using sites. While there may be inaccuracies, I think Strawberry Reef is a good introduction. Now that I have your site to rely on I will not turn back, but I might say that I would be quite overwhelmed at first and need a lot of help navigating your site....Once again no offense is meant by this, I'm simply stating my own experience....

I don't do pricing, though. It fluctuates too much and that isn't really the point of my site. I think Bluerose's (?) guide may be better for that although the Arena's PC archives might also help you check out current market trends. Websites are better than printed resources for up to date pricing.

I didn't even take into account pricing when I was making my suggestion....just my mistake again, I was only trying to help above

I don't have Summer's book on international ponies but I would imagine the prices are now well out of date.

If the other book you mention is the one I think and not a more recent version then it also contains errors, probably influenced also by DV.

Again I didn't mean to insinuate that anything I suggested had pricing...I was simply trying to help

[Taffeta]

Edited for clarity and hopefully conciseness.

I'm not offended. Just fed up. The only reason there is any accurate UK info out there now is because of the fight we had years back to get things sorted out.

I'm not telling everyone to use my site over all others. I believe in cross-referencing to make sure you get the right info. But I do think it's reckless to use or share a site that is no longer being updated and therefore cannot correct mistakes. We all make mistakes, but it's harder to dislodge wrong information than it is to create new.

People do use my site as a first entry to UK ponies, so I guess that's your perspective.

As for putting it all in context, I used to separate it out and then realised by doing so I was making the problem worse. The idea that UK ponies are separate from the US release is a misnomer. It's led to problems in the past and US people still trade at a disadvantage because right now the only website that tells people which ponies were sold in the US and not the UK is mine.

In the past it was easier to trade pony for pony, but now it's more money-based. I am sure people are still paying more money for ponies because of wrong information still in circulation. Just recently I saw someone list lavender Woosie as a UK pony, even though she is more common in the US. I am sure her price and others, like blue heart Dazzleglow, has been put up by the myth of them being UK ponies. Then if you can't find them in the UK, they seem more rare and the price goes up again.

Also, UK is not a catchall term for ponies not sold in the US. This is a big problem and it needs addressing. I mean , unless you think it's ok for someone to waste several hours on UK ebay looking for a pony only sold in Germany, surely you can see that being accurate is the best bet.

Back to the OP - my recommendation in terms of books is probably Summer;s, but ignore the price guide as it's not current. In terms of websites, I suggest cross-referencing several, not relying just on one. That's the best way to find stuff out and screen out errors. But I strongly recommend against using any website which is no longer updated or maintained. It might seem quicker to just look at a bunch of pictures, but actually you might end up losing money or making a mistake because you rely on something wrong just because it's quick.

For the record, I use Strawberry Reef (I cross-reference with the Wiki) for G3 information, so I am not making a personal attack. I just believe, and always have, that correct information at start point is better than having to unlearn errors later on.

[PoserBeachball]

Taffeta,
I must say that I find your website invaluable, thank you for your hard work and intricate research.

Being UK based it's great to find the ponies that I remember by their UK names ( for example those Tropical ponies - thought I was mis-remembering the names when looking for them!!!)

[Taffeta]

Taffeta,
I must say that I find your website invaluable, thank you for your hard work and intricate research.

Being UK based it's great to find the ponies that I remember by their UK names ( for example those Tropical ponies - thought I was mis-remembering the names when looking for them!!!)

Thank you I appreciate the vote of confidence.

I think it depends really on what you want from an ID site, as Heftysmurf said. There's nothing wrong with wanting a quick picture guide - so long as that information is correct. I have no issue with other sites being used for UK information, so long as the information they're giving out isn't creating more work for me and other UK people fielding myths and rumours online (And most of all, that it isn't costing people money).

I write my site as a complete history of MLP in the UK, not just a list. Some people don't want that, and that's fine. But that's my childhood too so I feel like it's important to preserve it

I do still have a checklist to write when my PhD is done, but I am not going to ever segregate ponies out again. Milky Way, Masquerade etc are not US ponies, they're ponies sold globally, and to say otherwise helps to conceal the fact that Bright Eyes, Sweet Pop and Bonnie Bonnets were not sold globally. Knowing that Bonnie Bonnets was sold in Holland but not sold in the UK can also be useful information if you're wanting to trade. You might get a better trade from the UK than from Holland for your pony.

I realise I'm the outsize in info geeks and I'm also that terrible thing, a historian - so I do go to town on this and this is the core love of my pony collecting - the history of pony stuff in the UK, backcards, leaflets and all. BUT I also care a lot about people not being ripped off. I began my site because people were being, years back. I don't think necessarily it's happening now, but mistakes breed misunderstandings and can lead to bigger problems, so whatever site anyone is using, the real message I want to put forward is make sure it's accurate.

(I should add that I also deal with a lot of ID enquiries by email, which an absent webmaster or webmistress cannot do).

[applejackbunny]

Taffeta, I also want to thank you for all the hard work you've put in over all these years. I can imagine what a huge project it must have been/still is (and, of course, a labour of love) and as a fellow UK collector, I really appreciate that.

I also want to add that, as a fellow Aspie, I massively appreciate accuracy.

[Leikin]

I also am a huge fan of Taffetas site, and it is the one I usually go to for pony information, at least regarding releases.

I, and I assume a lot of other European collectors are somewhat annoyed that ponycollecting is always referenced in a US point of view, and everything non US (and not part of the nirvana area) is often (but getting better) refered to as UK ponies.  It is like the rest of the European market never existed, if we did not produce our own ponies like spain and france, or har exlisive variants such as germany for example.
In fact most of the ponies labeled as UK ponies, where sold across Europe, and very few (maybe a handfull?) is truly UK exclusives.
On the other hand we have ponies that are considered standard releases, that where never sold in Europe, thus making them actually US exclusives, but selldom or never reffered to as such, as everything US is normal release.
Many European collectors even use terms as UK ponies, about ponies that they may have had from childhood themself, never really questioning why it is considered UK pony, when it was obvisly sold in their countries as well. The bad thing though is that there is no

I doo see your point though heftysmurf, about using strawberry reef as a quick way to identify ponies by picture, evn though it has errors. For use of the scrapbookyou need to know what you are looking for, and where to find it, but once you have identified a pony on strawberry reef, I would suggest looking it up elsewhere to find more information about them, like the mlp wiki or the scrapbook if UK (Or Euro, as I would call most of them)

As for priceguides, books tend to be outdated quite fast, so its better to price check online, or check the price check archives

[Taffeta]

@Applejackbunny - of course O.o. We must be accurate! Thank you

@Leikin, I couldn't agree with you more. It annoyed me in the nineties when people were calling Baby CJ a UK pony and making up rumours about "Pretty Bow" and UK Pony Friend dolls and so on. I can't imagine how offensive it must be for you guys to have your childhoods basically negated by the catchall 'UK' label. I mean, we don't know enough about different European country regular releases but it's something I've been really interested in looking at more and more as time goes on. I'm writing the scrapbook from as collective a view as I can. Base is UK but everything else is also relevant.

Strawberry Reef still calls white Tootsie a UK pony. We never had her here .

I also hate my childhood ponies being called US ponies. I had the silver star Milky Way as a kid and I'm constantly dealing with people saying that is the US version and the UK version has white stars. Well, the UK had both. Mine was on a UK card and my friend had the other, on the same card at the same time. Apparently there is no "UK Milky Way". There is one with silver stars and one with white stars.

Posey is a bit the same. If you're collecting in Europe, chances are you can pick up multiple versions. Just because you can't do this in the US doesn't mean that having info about the multiple versions is irrelevant. It really all depends on what kind of info you are looking for

As for Scandinavia, I think probably those countries most closely resemble the UK release early on. People call Mountain Boys UK exclusives and they weren't sold in a lot of mainland Europe. But I think most of the surviving MOC ones have come out of Scandinavia, where they were also sold. I also know they were sold in Malaysia as well. And Truly and Cupcake from the Pony Friends set were sold in Scandinavia and in South Africa, but on cards marked Hasbro UK.

The whole thing is a lot more complex than just "US" and "UK". Another reason why sites like Strawberry Reef are out of date.

Europe itself is a problematic collective even if you disinclude the UK :/ The Benelux had certain things and Germany and Austria did, and so on...and Italy...we're dealing with so many markets aside the UK and Scandinavia that it's not possible to generalise to just one word. And Euro also excludes the fact several of the later ones were also available in Australia and NZ, who are definitely not in Europe (Well, Australia is for Eurovision apparently! ).

[heftysmurf76]

Edited for clarity and hopefully conciseness.

I'm not offended. Just fed up. The only reason there is any accurate UK info out there now is because of the fight we had years back to get things sorted out.

I'm not telling everyone to use my site over all others. I believe in cross-referencing to make sure you get the right info. But I do think it's reckless to use or share a site that is no longer being updated and therefore cannot correct mistakes. We all make mistakes, but it's harder to dislodge wrong information than it is to create new.

I'm glad you're not offended because I have to say I hope you keep in mind that I am making a laymans approach here. I never once claimed too be any type of expert on the subject, I was simply providing my preferred and first reference point

People do use my site as a first entry to UK ponies, so I guess that's your perspective.

well it's mine and several others I have conferred with offsite, but I don't want to get into a huge squabble over it...I have to say if it was what was referred to me than its going to continue to get referred to by others. Better to brace yourself for that IMHO...

As for putting it all in context, I used to separate it out and then realised by doing so I was making the problem worse. The idea that UK ponies are separate from the US release is a misnomer. It's led to problems in the past and US people still trade at a disadvantage because right now the only website that tells people which ponies were sold in the US and not the UK is mine.

I honestly think separating it all out is the only way you might attract more visitors...again this is just IMHO, but honestly as I said, your site is quite overwhelming, I'd probably be put off of collecting "UK ponies" altogether if I came across it as the ONLY source. Bottom line as a "Casual" collector, I don't need the entire history of the pony, I just want to know what it looked like and where it came from..
Again I don't want you to think I am trying to fight with you here or insult you, its the last thing I want to do. I just want to reiterate that

In the past it was easier to trade pony for pony, but now it's more money-based. I am sure people are still paying more money for ponies because of wrong information still in circulation. Just recently I saw someone list lavender Woosie as a UK pony, even though she is more common in the US. I am sure her price and others, like blue heart Dazzleglow, has been put up by the myth of them being UK ponies. Then if you can't find them in the UK, they seem more rare and the price goes up again.

ok now HERE'S where a better approach to all this might be extremely more helpful, I literally just bought white Tootsie last night under the impression that she was a UK pony release...So I have to say that your plight is quite obviously not without merit. BUT there has to be some in-between or "give" on this because how could I have known without extensive research? who does EXTENSIVE research when going after a pony?  I don't...I see a pony, i WANT it I buy it...period...I'm not sure how to resolve this aspect...

Also, UK is not a catchall term for ponies not sold in the US. This is a big problem and it needs addressing. I mean , unless you think it's ok for someone to waste several hours on UK ebay looking for a pony only sold in Germany, surely you can see that being accurate is the best bet.

perhaps that's where we should start when replying in the future, but honestly, again, I'm not looking for the history of the pony when I see it, i just know I want it.

Back to the OP - my recommendation in terms of books is probably Summer;s, but ignore the price guide as it's not current. In terms of websites, I suggest cross-referencing several, not relying just on one. That's the best way to find stuff out and screen out errors. But I strongly recommend against using any website which is no longer updated or maintained. It might seem quicker to just look at a bunch of pictures, but actually you might end up losing money or making a mistake because you rely on something wrong just because it's quick.

I agree on using Summers books for sure, but to clarify, Summer only has a book that covers the US releases, its very concise in that aspect, and again I never said anything about pricing...

For the record, I use Strawberry Reef (I cross-reference with the Wiki) for G3 information, so I am not making a personal attack. I just believe, and always have, that correct information at start point is better than having to unlearn errors later on.

point taken, Iwill continue in the future to use and refer to both

[glitterball]

I use Strawberry Reef for a quick visual ID, which is great, then search on My Little Wiki for more info and then take a look on Taffeta's site for still-further info. These three sites seem to cover everything I need to know about the pony,    then I hop on the Ebay to search for sold ponies and the prices they fetched, because I am a nosy so-and-so 

[Taffeta]

@Heftysmurf : I don't really want to fight with you either. I am frustrated - not because you don't like my site, that's fine, I've been here a long time and I've been threatened over my site before, so a few personal preferences are no big deal to me - but there are bigger issues at stake in this.

The main thing I need to reiterate is that the OP asked for references. The OP should have all the information to make a decision about what to use, including how up to date or accurate a resource is. I don't lie to people about stuff. If there's an issue, I'm going to point it out.

Your comment about White Tootsie kind of proves my case, actually. You followed a recommendation. Nobody challenged you about that website, so you got misled.

A reality check. Aside asking at the Arena, if you write white tootsie pony into google, you get first hit, the Wiki, which will tell you that White Tootsie is made in HK and sold in select European countries, and fourth hit, my site, which gives you Tootsie's page and tells you where White Tootsie was sold (as well as the style of card she was sold on, and an image to match).

Extensive research is what you do if you create a website. Extensive research is not typing three words into google. I imagine it would have taken you about the same amount of time to find white Tootsie on Strawberry Reef. As it happens, she is a Euro pony, just not a UK one, so you probably didn't lose anything. But there are other ponies that are US releases that get called UK, and other scams that come up from time to time.

Ultimately, this isn't my plight at all. My responsibility is simply to tell people if there's an issue with a site, because I don't lie. If I know something's amiss, I'll say so. It's the responsible thing to do. I know people still use it and recommend it and don't question it. But I can't do anything about that. If people stopped recommending sites that were no longer updated or accurate (or at least did so with the caveat that there are errors or it's out of date), then the problem would improve. But I can't do anything about that, either.

I've been having this kind of dialogue with people since before Strawberry Reef was even invented, back when it was Dream Valley. That was a lot more hostile, for a lot of reasons, but the fact is I'm well used to people passing on wrong information rather than looking up the right stuff. That's why I said mistakes are hard to dig out once rooted, and why it's better to begin with the right information. All that said, I don't think how my site is formatted has anything to do with whether you have easy access to reliable pony information. Clearly if you have access to google, you have access to that information.

The other thing I have to call you up on is the casual assumption that for some reason separating out ponies makes sense. Separating out ponies means telling lies somewhere along the line. There is no such thing as a divide between US ponies and UK ponies. It simply doesn't exist.

Let me put this into context for you.

If the entirety of online identification was structured so that whatever was sold in the UK and Europe was the mainstream core, and everything that the US had that nowhere else had was segregated out irrespective of year, set or any other detail, how easy would it be for you to identify your ponies? How much time would you spend struggling to identify why you had a furry Posey, when there's no furry Posey on the Posey page of the site?

If you come from a US background it's easy to assume that the status quo is how MLP is for everyone, but it's not the case. I grew up with Windy and Baby Blossom and Masquerade, but I also grew up with Snowflake and Gypsy. To me they're the same. They're all UK ponies because they were sold in the UK. But if I were a new collector trying to identify my childhood ponies on a US site, how am I going to do that? Honeycomb is a pegasus with glittery symbol but all I'd be able to do would be find Surprise. I'd have to know to go look in the International section to find Honeycomb. How would I know to do that, though, if these were ponies I grew up with?

We all have different experiences and memories of MLP. Most of the people I know of that use my website are UK based, or European, who don't remember the US-centric way of formatting MLP. I am NOT an expert on European release, but I try to include it because nobody else really does. The Wiki is the only site trying, but it's a big job all round.

This is my website. Bottom line, I pay for it. It's my hobby. It's my interest. It's my research. And it's accurate. That doesn't mean it's the best or first choice for everyone. But the OP asked, and has a right to know it's there. You don't have to use it. But you can respect it for what it is, even if you aren't it's target audience.

I still believe cross-referencing is the best option, though. As a historian and an academic, I say this too. The more you DO read about stuff, the less likely you'll get scammed. There have been some big money scams in the past and they always centre on someone claiming a pony is a UK exclusive. Because, sadly, there are still people out there who fall for the idea that anything weird must come from the UK. When actually, if you looked at the Uk as pretty much the same as the US line with a few additions, you'd probably be much less likely to be caught out.

Ultimately, though, what you do is up to you. It's absolutely not my responsibility to force information down your throat

[lovesbabysquirmy]

*giggles*  Someone said, "UK Ponies", well  I know Taffeta will be along shortly to sort them out!   

[Taffeta]

*giggles*  Someone said, "UK Ponies", well  I know Taffeta will be along shortly to sort them out!   

Too late, missed it *gives cookies anyway*

No, it wasn't really that bad. Was it? O.O.

I am clearly predictable