The Iffy Discussions - Is the future of MLP "tainted"?

[Leave a Whisper]

Crap like Total Drama Island and Uncle Grandpa are brainless too.

[Wardah]

Crap like Total Drama Island and Uncle Grandpa are brainless too.

Can't deny that. However most preschool programming these days tends to try to avoid any kind of real conflict and just play it safe.

[Sunset]

Ok, now that I'm home I can share my thoughts on this in full.

I do not think that MLP is tainted permanently by the more unsavory parts of the fandom.  Those who were in it for the fad are already moving on.  You can see this by the lack of "adult" merch.  Neither Target or Walmart carry much in the way of mlp in the trading card/adult collectibles section anymore.  Hot Topic has moved on.

Also, knowledge of what bronies even are is not as wide spread as it may seem to us who are saturated with pony news.  In my experience, the average family doesn't know or only vaguely knows what a Brony is.  Maybe those who live near bigger metropolitan areas or places where large Brony conventions are held might have had more interactions.  But from my perspective from small town USA, the existence of bronies hasn't dampened the view of My Little Pony as a brand for young girls.

Then as I said earlier,  Hasbro didn't show *any* GoH stuff at Toy Fair which I read as that line didn't sell as well as they wanted.  And it's possible that they don't want to sink a lot of time and money into new molds when they know that they are going to have to re do the whole line in a year.

But back to bronies. Yeah, it is really going to depend on how the new show is recieved.  There will be some who hate it simply because it isn't FiM.  There will be some inclined to like it.  There will be some who will judge it on the animation/writing etc.  But regardless, I just don't think the new show is going to maintain the same level of fandom that FiM did.  And those who where only here for FiM will slowly fall away when no more new content is being produced.

Unless.....

Stay with me here,  I'm really speculating way out there.

But it seems to me that this new school idea with these new students could be a back door pilot idea that Hasbro is trying out.  What to do when it seems that your brand has the potential to have a more gender neutral audience but still has a very strong identity as a girl's brand?  What to do when you have two conflicting types of consumers, those who like their ponies pretty and brushable and those who like completely molded action figures?

What if the answer is to have a spinoff with similar themes but using a variety of different types of fantasy animals that might appeal to both genders?

It could be really smart if they can pull it off.  Use the power of the MLP brand to spinoff a more gender neutral brand while leaving the original MLP brand to re-identify with its girly roots.

I mean, I could be totally off the mark here but once it accured to me the more I like the idea.

[Ponyfan]

I thought the Guardians of Harmony were because Hasbro was trying to make ponies more articulated/poseable. I know Walmart carried the first few waves of the GOH and also the pirate GOH sets. The only place I could find Chrysalis was at GameStop. I haven't found the Tempest/Twilight set in stores either

Ponyfan

[SaraMari]

Sorry everyone if I caused confusion, I thought GoH was an attempt to bring in more segments like boys and bronies! I think I made it sound like they were designed for bronies. 

I liked what goddessofpeep mentioned about waiting a year or two. I certainly have fallen out of fandoms because I moved into different things in the interim.

Also as Sunset brought up, how tainted his mlp in the general populace? How tainted is it to Hasbro? I feel like if bronies are bringing lots of profit to Hasbro they are less likely to move away from the FiM formula. (Though I have to say it's feeling very stagnant)

[lovesbabysquirmy]

I am with goddessofpeep ... we need a break!!!!  The brand needs a break!!! 

When ALL MLP fans are wailing and tearing their hair out at whatever new MLP generation it is, because it's been YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEARS since we had "new ponies on shelves", that is the sweet spot for them to make money. 

[Sunset]

I wouldn't say GoH were *for* bronies, per say.  But they definitly appear to be intended to draw in boys.  Certainly there are girls who are into them.  But the combination of taking away brushable hair, adding articulation and action features, and themeing almost all of them on the idea of fighting.... It just screams stereotypical boy.   Notice how they didn't make any Rarity GoH with fashion accesories and the only Fluttershy is pirate themed (and hard to find) instead of the more stereotypically female theme of nurturing.

[Wardah]

I am with goddessofpeep ... we need a break!!!!  The brand needs a break!!! 

When ALL MLP fans are wailing and tearing their hair out at whatever new MLP generation it is, because it's been YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEARS since we had "new ponies on shelves", that is the sweet spot for them to make money. 

I'm going to assume the show will still be on Netflix even after it ends. What would kids who see the show and want toys of the characters do if there aren't any new ponies on the shelves?

[goddessofpeep]

MLP generations tend to go out slowly and painfully.  You get a few years of stupid gimmicks, bad distribution as retailers are reluctant to order more of something that hasn't sold properly for a while, and tired ideas.  Even the show is suffering from the generation being on life support as Hasbro tries to squeeze that *extra* bit of life out of it.  I know they won't kill it and give things a chance to die down, but I still think they should.   

It will take at least a year for all the old stock to completely sell out of stores.  Heck, the last time I was at TRU I saw the bridesmaid set from that wedding themed year!  And to be honest, there haven't been any really new ponies on shelves for several years.  There's a huge backlog of Pinkie Pies sitting at TRU at this very moment.  It's more than enough to supply any newer fans for a while.  And it's not like the internet doesn't exist.  There's plenty of old stock on ebay and amazon, and a lot of it is still cheap.  It's also about the time for G4 ponies to start showing up at garage sales and thrift stores in large numbers.  There's usually a large influx of ponies in the second hand market as kids outgrow their old toys.

I've been collecting nonstop since the G2s first came out, and I've seen my fair share of generation turnovers.  I have zero excitement for this one, and I can't imagine I'm the only one.  I'm tired.  I hate watching a generation die.  It's never pretty, and when it drags out like this, it affects the atmosphere surrounding the next one.     

[Goanna]

Nah, I don't think it is tainted forever

In much agreement with Sunset: the bronies will move on to other fads. If they don't like the new show, I doubt they'll stick with it... MLP the brand will outlive 'bronies' ^^
I guess as to the pop-culture references and everything in the show, will depend on whether the kids enjoy it?  MLP will always change as kids culture changes too. I really love that you can kind of see the aesthetics of different time periods summed up in the MLP generations. Just looking at a G3 to me screams 'early 2000s', as do G1s well represent the 80s! So yeah it'll be really interesting seeing what the next 10 years brings and what appeals to kids in this day and age!

[PoserBeachball]

I guess as to the pop-culture references and everything in the show, will depend on whether the kids enjoy it?  MLP will always change as kids culture changes too. I really love that you can kind of see the aesthetics of different time periods summed up in the MLP generations. Just looking at a G3 to me screams 'early 2000s', as do G1s well represent the 80s! So yeah it'll be really interesting seeing what the next 10 years brings and what appeals to kids in this day and age!

The pop-culture references will date the line faster than anything.
What kid will want a toy based on Dad's favourite band?

Fascinating for those interested in history of course, but not as universally attractive perhaps as the older gens which had 'space' for imaginative play and creativity.

[Zapper]

I wouldn't say GoH were *for* bronies, per say.  But they definitly appear to be intended to draw in boys.  Certainly there are girls who are into them.  But the combination of taking away brushable hair, adding articulation and action features, and themeing almost all of them on the idea of fighting.... It just screams stereotypical boy.   Notice how they didn't make any Rarity GoH with fashion accesories and the only Fluttershy is pirate themed (and hard to find) instead of the more stereotypically female theme of nurturing.

Exactly. GoH was very deliberately trying to get boys. Even the packaging was different. It is quite amusing when people say it was an effort not to gender MLP. How come people always say "it's for everyone" when it's stereotypically masculine? Boys liked MLP before. They just should have released more interesting boy characters and articulated figures in general as part of the regular line, no need for the war or fighting narrative and no need to give everyone a grim face and weapons.
I made a topic about that a while ago, that there is no place for Fluttershy and Rarity in GoH because Hasbro assumes boys don't like them. That's toy gendering 101, that's got nothing to do with neutrality. It's more like Hasbro's Forces of Destiny, except that FoD didn't get too girled up in its narrative or packaging. Whereas GoH is more like an alternative universe where all ponies are angry and want to kill the Changelings. And for some reason Spike is a war hero who fights Chrysalis with a spear
The FoD characters are just their regular selves but in doll form.

If anyone wonders what target audiences Hasbro has, just look at their visualizations in their slide shows. It is worth noting that a typical "Brony" is never shown. The stand-in picture for adult fans are cosplaying young women. That's where they also got the idea for EqG from, btw.
GoH is the only line that features a photo of a little boy (along with a little girl). The static GoH figures are for adult fans (stand-in pic of the female cosplayers). Some fashion products are also geared towards these "adult fans". EqG is for girls a little older than the core FiM audience. Playskool is for toddlers.

Now they did not have a visualization for their third party stuff like Funko Pops, etc. because that's not done in-house. I guess if they had one it would depict the "cosplayer" photo as well because as it seems Hasbro are very careful not to mention the b-word in their slideshows

It's all coded "fans". The internal e-mails suggested G5 will "retain core DNA" and it will please "fans of FiM". Take that as you will. They regard everyone who watches FiM a "FiM fan", btw.
And the core audience for G5 will not change. Any rumors it will be for teens are based on a misinterpretation of the e-mail where it said in one sentence that the G5 ponies will be young adults so the kids can look up to them. That's the same as FiM.

[Wardah]

I wouldn't say GoH were *for* bronies, per say.  But they definitly appear to be intended to draw in boys.  Certainly there are girls who are into them.  But the combination of taking away brushable hair, adding articulation and action features, and themeing almost all of them on the idea of fighting.... It just screams stereotypical boy.   Notice how they didn't make any Rarity GoH with fashion accesories and the only Fluttershy is pirate themed (and hard to find) instead of the more stereotypically female theme of nurturing.

Exactly. GoH was very deliberately trying to get boys. Even the packaging was different. It is quite amusing when people say it was an effort not to gender MLP. How come people always say "it's for everyone" when it's stereotypically masculine? Boys liked MLP before. They just should have released more interesting boy characters and articulated figures in general as part of the regular line, no need for the war or fighting narrative and no need to give everyone a grim face and weapons.
I made a topic about that a while ago, that there is no place for Fluttershy and Rarity in GoH because Hasbro assumes boys don't like them. That's toy gendering 101, that's got nothing to do with neutrality. It's more like Hasbro's Forces of Destiny, except that FoD didn't get too girled up in its narrative or packaging. Whereas GoH is more like an alternative universe where all ponies are angry and want to kill the Changelings. And for some reason Spike is a war hero who fights Chrysalis with a spear
The FoD characters are just their regular selves but in doll form.

I meant more that GoH was an answer to the charge that "Play patterns of toys aimed at girls are limiting. Always about nurturing or fashion". And if little boys can enjoy it too then bonus.

[Zapper]

I wouldn't say GoH were *for* bronies, per say.  But they definitly appear to be intended to draw in boys.  Certainly there are girls who are into them.  But the combination of taking away brushable hair, adding articulation and action features, and themeing almost all of them on the idea of fighting.... It just screams stereotypical boy.   Notice how they didn't make any Rarity GoH with fashion accesories and the only Fluttershy is pirate themed (and hard to find) instead of the more stereotypically female theme of nurturing.

Exactly. GoH was very deliberately trying to get boys. Even the packaging was different. It is quite amusing when people say it was an effort not to gender MLP. How come people always say "it's for everyone" when it's stereotypically masculine? Boys liked MLP before. They just should have released more interesting boy characters and articulated figures in general as part of the regular line, no need for the war or fighting narrative and no need to give everyone a grim face and weapons.
I made a topic about that a while ago, that there is no place for Fluttershy and Rarity in GoH because Hasbro assumes boys don't like them. That's toy gendering 101, that's got nothing to do with neutrality. It's more like Hasbro's Forces of Destiny, except that FoD didn't get too girled up in its narrative or packaging. Whereas GoH is more like an alternative universe where all ponies are angry and want to kill the Changelings. And for some reason Spike is a war hero who fights Chrysalis with a spear
The FoD characters are just their regular selves but in doll form.

I meant more that GoH was an answer to the charge that "Play patterns of toys aimed at girls are limiting. Always about nurturing or fashion". And if little boys can enjoy it too then bonus.

That's your interpretation and doesn't reflect how the toy industry operates.
The question was if GoH is really geared towards boys and the answer is "yes". Count all the male side characters who are suddenly heroes in this. Where is flying Cadence? Rarity slapping Rock Dogs around? Fluttershy wrestling a bear? These characters didn't test well with boys.
And in general they gave them all weapons and put them in one-on-one scenraios.
Because that's a typical boy toy narrative.

Got nothing to do with "boys can enjoy MLP"and more with "if we apply war and anger to a girl toy then parents of boys will buy it". That's rather clever on Hasbro's part to get more money but in the end just reinforces old techniques and it's nit centered in girls at all. Toy companies do not believe that girls love war and hate fashion.
GoH is more like "this is for boys but if a girl wants it, too, ok because it's still FiM". Like I said, clever.

That's got nothing to do with G5, tho.
That was all about "who's the target audience for this?" And according to Hasbro "Bronies" are not the target audience of either GoH or FiM in general.

[Taffeta]

I think I'm a minority opinion but I don't see the brony thing as a big deal going forward.

One side-note, when I was working at the college some years ago, I had a lot of students who were bronies (teenage male version). Several of them had Fluttershy as a favourite character. Just putting that out there regarding the stereotype. You could also see it as a male need to protect something 'weaker' maybe?

In anycase, moving on.

We already know that not all G4 fans are crazy. I actually think the term brony has become tainted, which is one reason I try not to use it as a generalisation because brony for me is more associated with bad stuff than G4 fan or FIM fan, even if they refer to the same demographic. I expect the fad aspect of the fandom to die out gradually on it's own whether there is G5 or not. It's just a case of what the target of Hasbro is. I don't think they are targeting the existing G4 'brony' fanbase, but they might choose to target more material and merch to the next generation of whatever comes to take their place.

I said that the current G4 fanbase will have more trouble adjusting to G5 than anyone earlier in the thread. Reason is that, like Goddessofpeep said, we've seen it over and over now. We're used to the shake up and the change, but they're still in the first stage of discovering MLP. And for them, the idea of something completely different may be harder to come to terms with than it will be for us. We went through that painfully with G2 and some of the reactions to G4 that have leaked through from over there are remeniscent of the same thing.

 That might be something that holds G5 back, but in a way keeping the mane 6 but changing everything about them may make the transition more toxic for those fans. Kind of like Monster High has basically killed itself by rebooting the line, and is pretty much now anonymous as a toy product. I can't say whether MH was going to die anyway, but it hasn't died gracefully, and so a lot of people have already abandoned ship. Another thing from the MH community is that some people have commented how they can't imagine not being able to go in stores and buy new dolls...and this is a reason for giving up the fandom. Not criticising that, it's a valid perspective, but the same could be applied to some G4 fans who do like the toyline.

I am not sure GOH sells very well here. Blind bags and the mini figures seem to, and brushables. Not sure about the FS ponies. They end on discount a lot but sell when they are on discount. And I have seen more young boys reach out to play with giant spike than girls.

Merchandise in the UK for adults in stores and such has never really been particularly brony. Online website stores are different, but the most adult pony merchandise I've seen is G1, especially in Primark which has an extensive line and it's been going on for some several years. I feel with the retro ponies, they've been building us up to it by promoting the Rainbow Ponies excessively in the last year or so. But it's interesting that that is what is aimed at adults here. More nostalgia than brony. I am not really certain there's any consciousness in the wider UK about what a brony is...it's very much an online thing rather than a person in the street thing. Also, I wonder where the retro thing is going, because it's not just one set and happy anniversary. It's a three year programme of rereleasing old MLP. Why do that now? 35 is an odd anniversary to mark so emphatically. I do wonder whether this is also market research - maybe not to rerelease G1 but to find out whether kids respond to them and thus use it to figure out what to do next with G5.

Re the toys and the TV show - Ghostbusters, Jem and I think, Shera? are on Netflix now. There aren't many if any toys for them but kids can still watch them. Kids don't always need toys for a cartoon show to be enjoyed.

I'd like MLP to go back to being a toy with other material being secondary, but I strongly suspect that will never happen. But whatever comes next can't change the old existing generations, so I guess it's not really my business anyway?