Pony Talk > MLP Nirvana

Collectors Pose Sundance

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Ember1:
I have several prototypes in my collection found in the UK. I am not saying they were made in the UK. Just found there.

And the UK has been referred to by lots of collectors as a dumping ground for international protos. Weather or not this is an official hasbro dump or a coincidence if traveling pony owners certainly many prototypes have been found in the UK.

The prototypes i have in my collection that were found in the UK are prototype sunnybunch, prototype painting time, prototype cp sundance and the confirmed reverse gusty. I remember those alternate uk babies found in different poses too and prototype playtime and music time that were found with prototype painting time at a carboot sale.

And the records ive located for the delaneys confirmed reverse gusty found in the late 80s stated she was found there too.

[splitting this from the Rusty thread Love pkw xxx]

Taffeta:
I can't explain your Sparkler Sunnybunch pony. Aside her being amazing, I have no clue what Hasbro were thinking when she happened. I wish I did. I think she's great, but yeah. I got nothing.

I would LOVE the UK to be a dumping ground for prototypes, but my point was that it's not especially good for prototypes over all other locations. All the ponies you mention except the MGR and Sundance are connected to the UK, which is what I said above. It makes sense for them to be here because probably the PR stuff was being coordinated by Hasbro UK. The catalogue LadyPinwheel posted shows Susie and Billie in those poses but those images were transmitted across Europe and the first image I was sent of Billie came from France, not the UK. The images from the catalogue are the same in the Spanish and English language versions of Hasbro's trade catalogue for that year.

Yes, my Susie is British and so is LadyG's Billie, and right now they are the only ones we have tangible evidence for. But we don't know that that image from France is the same Billie as Lady G's. And we don't know that these weren't sent across the whole continent for promotional purposes. I also wouldn't be surprised if your painted ponies weren't used for the same purpose, and ditto resin baby Explorer. I expect prototypes of UK and Euro release ponies to appear here because the UK was instrumental in their creation. But we've seen many actual prototypes from the US as well - Glowing magic/GnS ones, the Bluebelle I mentioned. The idea that the UK is a 'dumping ground for prototypes' is misleading. We've actually seen prototypes from all different places. It's just true that there are some relating to Uk releases that have appeared here.

As for Sundance, you didn't buy her from the UK and you only have the seller's story that she was ever here. The story really doesn't make sense in context with the timeline she gave, so until we have more evidence, it's unproven what her origins are. It's important to remember that the UK didn't have a Hong Kong Sundance release. Ever. I think you have more to do before you can call Sundance a UK pony.

Ember1:
I want to clarify i did not say these prototypes were actually from the UK - only that these ponys were found there. Please reference my earlier post.  So the UK might have served as a type of headquarters for international releases. This is my hypothesis.

Taffeta:

--- Quote from: Ember1 on February 14, 2018, 06:01:46 PM ---I want to clarify i did not say these prototypes were actually from the UK - only that these ponys were found there. Please reference my earlier post.  So the UK might have served as a type of headquarters for international releases. This is my hypothesis.


--- End quote ---

I already mentioned that, and it's not so much a hypothesis but there's enough evidence to indicate its truth. I expect a few Euro/UK release pony prototypes to show up here and that's what we've found - although we still have to qualify that with the acceptance that a lot of prototypes existed for which we don't know the whereabouts.

RG is always problematic because she's not a UK or a US Gusty, but because of the packaging situation with Scandinavia, it is possible she showed up here. I accept the provenance of two RGs - yours and KPF's - not because I am a passionate believer in RG, but rather because there is a detailed record of their history going right back to the original finder. A pony like that needs such a provenance. We know what those two ponies have done and where they have been from the point of first finding to now.

It's taken 20 years to find clues about Billie and Susie, and we still don't 100% know how many of them were made/if they were all over Europe as promotional or just the odd one or two that now survive. Billie is harder to pin down because of the existence of the French photograph. My Susie came from a UK ebay seller who knew her name but didn't register her pose was different in the listing, back in about 1999. Susie's been with me since. I have never assumed her to be a UK prototype. It's only now that I have enough evidence to even hypothesise that she was part of the promotional campaign. That's taken 20 years to get to this point, and I am still open to the possibility that Susie's origin might not have been the UK, even though I bought her from here 20 years ago. Even so, I've had her a long time and many people have seen her in the meantime and we now have a workable theory. She was also sold in Europe and the UK so there's no real strangeness about her being found here.

Most of the above doesn't apply with Sundance. It's one thing to hypothesise about ponies that were released in Europe and the UK but not in the US - it makes sense for prototypes of those ponies to show up in Europe, and a very few have (although not the majority that existed, we need to remember that too). It's a different thing to claim that all prototypes got 'dumped here' or 'brought here by travelling'. We have exactly no evidence of that happening. HK Sundance is not a UK release pony. You did not buy her from the UK. We do not have a detailed ownership provenance going back to the middle 1990s that can be verified to here. Your seller claimed to have got her from a pony meet here 5 years before there were pony meets here. At that time, all UK people knew each other online, and we would have known about her then.

None of this disproves Sundance as a real prototype, of course. The problem I have is not with that, it's with the fact we don't have evidence that foreign prototypes were dumped in the UK. In order to make that claim or even as a hypothesis, you need more than a very questionable story told to you by an Ebay seller. We no longer live in a world where all weird can be explained just by calling it a UK pony. Most collectors now need more than that. For my part, I'd find it easier to link Sundance to the UK if she had been a NC prototype. The fact she isn't throws the door wide open to other possibilities and all of those have to be eliminated before she can be ascribed to the UK.

Ember1:
CP subdance was probanly intended for international release perhaps after US plans for her release didnt work out since the catalogue photo we have of her reflects her with an early show stable. There was a cp applejack made where in the US they released shy pose applejack. I think this is the case with cp sundance but plans did not go through to mass produce her in the states so the idea was taken to the UK.  We dont know how the prototype creation process worked or what offices were in collaboration with one another. The idea could have come from the US and was transfered to the UK office with the prototype . Who knows.

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