Would prototype ponies be in the same boat as region exclusives?

[Mana Minori]

I've always been a fan of the generation 1 Takara ponies, which were only released in Japan, but seem extremely rare and expensive to acquire now. The few I've seen put on for sale on Ebay ranged in the thousands, which- obviously I can't afford, an seemingly only serious (and wealthy) collectors can justify throwing their money at. Even fakies I've seen can be quite pricey. However, with the camping for never before released prototype ponies of g1 being highlighted and gaining support, I have been wondering if such a rally and following would be possible if done for the Takara ponies, which have actually been released at some point.
I actually contacted Tomy on FB - the English branch, quite by accident- and they promptly messaged me back, informing me of my mistake but hopefully someone there will relay the message to their Japanese branch- of which I have also contacted afterward. Does anyone here believe it to be possible to get the Takaras re-released, in light of the franchise's 35th anniversary, if prototype ponies have rallies behind them (fingers crossed that they both succeed)? Granted, I don't know just how much collectors desire these region exclusives, though with retro ponies (and other nostalgic toys) coming back for the anniversary, I don't see the harm in trying to suggest it. And I know the Takaras don't carry any nostalgic value for those outside of Japan, but on the other hand, I feel like the celestial ponies that are prototypes don't, either- having never been released, and only appearing in a catalogue.

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[LadyMoondancer]

Is Jun Planning still around?  They're the ones I would suggest contacting for a Japan-exclusive item.  (Originally Japan exclusive I mean.)  They made repro MLP items in the 90s (G2 era), like keychains of the TAF babies and Baby Rainbow ponies. 

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They've never done any repro Takaras, but since they're located in Japan, and have done G1 MLP repros in the past, they seem like the best candidate.  Although they would have to have a licensing agreement with Takara . . . Takara is definitely still around, they have a close but complicated relationship with Hasbro due to the past and present of Transformers.

Edit:  Looks like Jun Planning "underwent changes" in 2008, became a company named Groove, and are now located in South Korea. 

[Mana Minori]

Is Jun Planning still around?  They're the ones I would suggest contacting for a Japan-exclusive item.  (Originally Japan exclusive I mean.)  They made repro MLP items in the 90s (G2 era), like keychains of the TAF babies and Baby Rainbow ponies. 

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They've never done any repro Takaras, but since they're located in Japan, and have done G1 MLP repros in the past, they seem like the best candidate.  Although they would have to have a licensing agreement with Takara . . . Takara is definitely still around, they have a close but complicated relationship with Hasbro due to the past and present of Transformers.

Edit:  Looks like Jun Planning "underwent changes" in 2008, became a company named Groove, and are now located in South Korea.

a quick search pulled up that JP Japan filed for bankruptcy in 2009, and their Japanese site in no longer available, but the U.S. branch is still in operation.

[Taffeta]

I'd say no, unmade mainstream ponies and regional exclusives are totally different.

I've said it before, but I think if you genuinely want these to be rereleased, you do need to talk to the Japanese mothership Takara about it. But I am also going to say this again.

Japanese people do not widely remember Takara MLP. Western MLP is better known and more available in Japan's second hand market (and the Jun merchandise is indicative of that, they chose to represent western ideas not the Japanese Takara line). I have spoken to Japanese people about Takara MLP. They have no idea what that is.

So basically they're probably not nostalgic to the Japanese (Japan don't even sell G4 now except for Pez and plushies, because I was there last year and trust me, not a single one in any toy store, not even TRU). Sylvanian families have taken the equivalent slot and are still really successful there...as are lots of other toys which are not dissimilar to the Takara ponies in terms of a small character with several detailed accessories to go with.

Basically, the only people who might be interested in seeing Takara ponies come out are collectors of Takara ponies and you might do better trying to canvas people who do collect them to get behind your campaign. Of course, if Takara ponies were to be rereleased, you might also see a drop or a rise in the value of the originals. The only reason they are that price is because of western collectors trying to get hold of them. They used to sell on yahoo auctions for about $30 each. Now they're listed with a price of 280,000yen start bid because the sellers over there know that westerners want them. Even so, at the same time, you'll scroll through several pages of second hand cheaper G1-4 ponies which families picked up when overseas.

I feel like it's not that you want Takara to be released as a nostalgia toy...you want to be able to buy Takara ponies at a reasonable price. Even speaking Japanese doesn't afford you that option any more, unfortunately (I really wish I'd bought them up when they were cheap ). Unless you happen to be in Japan and fluke find one at a second hand store, the chances are pretty low.

The fact that so much money is spent on them proves there is a demand for them, but also that a lot of people are fighting over a small number of original ponies.

Now whether there's more justification for the Celestials than the Takara, that's another matter entirely. Personally I think it's more important to get ponies we know will sell well to be released first so they are more open to us making suggestions. It makes more sense if collectors are telling a company, these are well loved, and the company sells them and makes a lot of money...that THEN they will listen to collectors. So I personally (though I am supporting it) think the celestial campaign is jumping the gun.

In any case, you need to talk to Takara in Japan. If they don't reply to you, probably you need to find someone to contact them in Japanese. And send them pictures of the toy you are talking about, too. But I suspect that it's probably a dead end. Because I think Takara are very much a niche thing still and not popular enough to generate enough support for a release of any kind.

(And imagine if they only did a release in Japan? Would you be happy with that or would that be just as irritating?)

[Lilja]

Taffeta summarized it nicely!

I suspect Takara MLPs would be in way more demand by western MLP collectors than anyone living in Japan. Their prices only shot up after they started to spread to the western market. I believe this is because of the popularity of MLP in the west, as well as the popularity of Japanese things. Collectors are attracted to them because they're a "Japanese version of MLP", but also because they are very unique and unlike any other type of pony.

Some of us do have nostalgia for them as well, since we had the fakies as kids. That sure fueled my interest in them. Finding out that these little cute things actually were an offical part of MLP, and that there was whole world for them.

It would take considerable effort to get a reproduction of these made. Takara owns the right to the molds (unlikely they still have them though), and they could probably sell them under another name than "My Little Pony". If they want to use that name, they need to get the license from Hasbro again. Takara Tomy doesn't sell their products outside Japan by themselves, so if the market is in the west, you need another company to sell them there.

Bridge Direct/Basic Fun would have to deal with both Hasbro and Takara Tomy to do a release of these. That seems like a lot of trouble, for what is a small niche inside the MLP collectors community, which itself is a small niche within the overall consumer base.

[Mana Minori]

I'd say no, unmade mainstream ponies and regional exclusives are totally different.

I've said it before, but I think if you genuinely want these to be rereleased, you do need to talk to the Japanese mothership Takara about it. But I am also going to say this again.

Japanese people do not widely remember Takara MLP. Western MLP is better known and more available in Japan's second hand market (and the Jun merchandise is indicative of that, they chose to represent western ideas not the Japanese Takara line). I have spoken to Japanese people about Takara MLP. They have no idea what that is.

So basically they're probably not nostalgic to the Japanese (Japan don't even sell G4 now except for Pez and plushies, because I was there last year and trust me, not a single one in any toy store, not even TRU). Sylvanian families have taken the equivalent slot and are still really successful there...as are lots of other toys which are not dissimilar to the Takara ponies in terms of a small character with several detailed accessories to go with.

Basically, the only people who might be interested in seeing Takara ponies come out are collectors of Takara ponies and you might do better trying to canvas people who do collect them to get behind your campaign. Of course, if Takara ponies were to be rereleased, you might also see a drop or a rise in the value of the originals. The only reason they are that price is because of western collectors trying to get hold of them. They used to sell on yahoo auctions for about $30 each. Now they're listed with a price of 280,000yen start bid because the sellers over there know that westerners want them. Even so, at the same time, you'll scroll through several pages of second hand cheaper G1-4 ponies which families picked up when overseas.

I feel like it's not that you want Takara to be released as a nostalgia toy...you want to be able to buy Takara ponies at a reasonable price. Even speaking Japanese doesn't afford you that option any more, unfortunately (I really wish I'd bought them up when they were cheap ). Unless you happen to be in Japan and fluke find one at a second hand store, the chances are pretty low.

The fact that so much money is spent on them proves there is a demand for them, but also that a lot of people are fighting over a small number of original ponies.

Now whether there's more justification for the Celestials than the Takara, that's another matter entirely. Personally I think it's more important to get ponies we know will sell well to be released first so they are more open to us making suggestions. It makes more sense if collectors are telling a company, these are well loved, and the company sells them and makes a lot of money...that THEN they will listen to collectors. So I personally (though I am supporting it) think the celestial campaign is jumping the gun.

In any case, you need to talk to Takara in Japan. If they don't reply to you, probably you need to find someone to contact them in Japanese. And send them pictures of the toy you are talking about, too. But I suspect that it's probably a dead end. Because I think Takara are very much a niche thing still and not popular enough to generate enough support for a release of any kind.

(And imagine if they only did a release in Japan? Would you be happy with that or would that be just as irritating?)

the fact that there IS demand for them, but scarce in supply, thus hyperinflation by sellers should speak for itself. Whether its for nostalgic purposes or monetary, there IS a demand for them- you said it yourself. Shouldn't a re-release in the place where there IS a demand make sense for a company to do? And also give collectors who want them a fair shot at obtaining them?

[Taffeta]

In a word...? No. Why would a company produce something never made for the global market in a place it never was when there are hundreds of safer bets?

There is a niche demand for the original takara ponies but you haven't established any interest for repro takara ponies. You need to start there if you want to make a case.

You would need to prove to the companies that this was more viable than every other option and had more support than all the more well known things.

Business is business. It isn't built on anything but sales. As SpiketheDragon said, we're talking about a subset of people within a subset of people within the general market. Right now we're not guaranteed that some of the iconic ponies of the 1980s (Paradise, Fizzy, etc) will be part of this movement, but there is MUCH better rationale for them to be reissued than the Takara ponies.

Not that many ponypeople like or collect Takara. Those that do go very in depth with them, but if you have the kind of money to collect Takara, you probably already outlaid it on some of the originals. If a rerelease dented your investment, you'd not support a retro reissue.

Your target market isn't fans of Takara. it's fans of Takara who can't afford to buy actual Takara ponies, whose own collections of Takara ponies won't be adversely affected in value/investment terms by a rerelease of Takara ponies. And you're not just looking at the people who think "ah, they're cute, I like those", but the ones who like you think, "wow, I would definitely buy those if they were cheaper." We're talking about a very small number of people right now. I am not saying give up, but just think about it a bit more rationally if you want to do this as an action plan. Right now it sounds like you want it so everyone else should too - but you really need to drum up actual support with a good rationale for WHY we need them to be released in the retro line. Right now I just don't see one. Especially since if they were rereleased for the West in the West with English language packaging...there will be another subset of the fans who won't want them because they've been westernised.

[LadyMoondancer]

That's an interesting point about Japanese people thinking of Hasbro's MLP (the quadroped ones) as being "MLP" rather than the Takara MLPs.

The reason I think a Japanese or Korean release might sell better than a western release is that I feel like Hello Kitty already dominates that niche in western stores.  To my eye, Takaras basically look like horsey Sanrio characters.  But in Japan this still seems to be a quite a widespread style, where Sanrio can exist next to Rillakuma (and others in that general style) and there's a market for all of them.

[Lilja]

The reason I think a Japanese or Korean release might sell better than a western release is that I feel like Hello Kitty already dominates that niche in western stores.  To my eye, Takaras basically look like horsey Sanrio characters.  But in Japan this still seems to be a quite a widespread style, where Sanrio can exist next to Rillakuma (and others in that general style) and there's a market for all of them.

For sure! But if the intent is to just have a cute character toy that can appeal to the general public, it seems like better business sense to just create a new one, than try to revive an obscure toy from 30+ years ago. One that to boot was unsuccessful back in its day and that pretty much no one remembers.

Come to think of it, it's kind of odd Takara even bothered to license the "My Little Pony" name back in the '80s, when their toys basically had nothing to do with Hasbro's MLP (and everything was made in Japan, so they didn't even come from the same factories). They could easily have made it an original property. The name "Oshare na Pony/Fashionable pony" was often more prominent on the boxes than "My Little Pony" anyway.

[LadyMoondancer]

Well, Takara has always had a close relationship with Hasbro thanks to their Transformers connection.  (Takara originally made the Diaclone and MicroChange toys, which Hasbro brought over to the US, created a backstory for, and named Transformers.  Takara still does a lot of Transformers producing / engineering for Hasbro.)

So, perhaps Hasbro willingly offered them the MLP license for a song in the 80s and Takara was like "Eh, sure, why not."  Maybe Hasbro was even kind of pushing it on them, hoping that MLP would be successful in Japan?  For being in the 80s (when it was harder to arrange international deals due to no internet, fewer people being bilingual, etc), Hasbro produced ponies in / for a loooot of countries.  So perhaps they were aggressive about trying to open new pony markets.

[Taffeta]

Pony colonialism...O.O.

I think there's something to that. But I also agree that there;s a big difference in the style of toy in Japan even now and here. I admit, I would have brought back a lot of sumikkogurashi and other stuff if I could have fitted them in my case, as it is I have sushi with faces and other stuff littering my shelves in my room. But this is still a niche kind of interest.

Here in the UK we have 2 big events celebrating Japanese culture in London (one near Christmas and one in the Summer). They are usually pretty busy. People come even from Europe to visit them and though they're not on the scale of some of the US Expo type things, they do pretty well. Some localised ones have also begun (even in areas like where I grew up, which is quite small, although they might lose it due to costs.)

There's also a little store in Covent Garden that specialises in this stuff, and some appears in bigger stores like the Japan centre. BUT the key focus of stuff that sells well in the UK at least for Japan can be itemised basically as:
Manga/anime
Games (in translation - console etc)
Merchandise relating to the above two
Food and drink.

Japanese toys themselves are very much niche, and tend to manifest more as straps or keychains and things like that. For example, in Japan I could buy a very large gudetama or a giant sanrio Kitty and I even have keychains of Hello Kitty stuff relevant to my research project of mediaeval Japan. BUT here in the UK it's much harder to get that stuff.

US is a bigger market with a closer historic relationship to Japan post-war so I would imagine you maybe get some more stuff over there, but it's still probably going to be predominately those products mentioned above. Hello Kitty took a LONG time to get going really. It began in 1979 but I had a Hello Kitty pencil case in the late 1980s from a Japanese family friend and nobody else here really knew what Hello Kitty was then, not even me. The US probably had her earlier, but the issue still stands.

I actually wonder if regular G1 would have done better in Japan as something different (given the quantity that kids bought overseas and took back with them, we had family friends who did that too) whereas Takara just didn't stand out enough among all the other stuff available. Hard to say really. But the majority of people who are into 'Japanese' stuff in the West mostly aren't actually into Japanese stuff so much as translated Japanese things (manga, games, anime). Then you have the hardcore fans who want everything in Japanese even if they don't understand it. Takara ponies risk being caught up in that battle.

In any case, I don't see any rationale for Takara ponies to ever be rereleased in any form whatsoever. And I actually think that if it wasn't for the people who idiotically jacked up the prices some years back, it would be more possible for people to get items from the original line without breaking the bank. This isn't so much an issue of needing repros but an issue of the stupid price of Takara ponies which is entirely collector-generated. And unfortunately there's not a lot that can be done about that.

Maybe the OP should approach the HQ custom project to see if they would be interested in making a Takara-style pony for release? I would have thought that would be more possible than getting a licensed one as part of the retro line (although it still wouldn't be original, in a sense, nor are any of the repro ponies. They're not replacements for the 1980s ponies, they're tributes to them).

[Lilja]

Well, Takara has always had a close relationship with Hasbro thanks to their Transformers connection.  (Takara originally made the Diaclone and MicroChange toys, which Hasbro brought over to the US, created a backstory for, and named Transformers.  Takara still does a lot of Transformers producing / engineering for Hasbro.)

So, perhaps Hasbro willingly offered them the MLP license for a song in the 80s and Takara was like "Eh, sure, why not."  Maybe Hasbro was even kind of pushing it on them, hoping that MLP would be successful in Japan?  For being in the 80s (when it was harder to arrange international deals due to no internet, fewer people being bilingual, etc), Hasbro produced ponies in / for a loooot of countries.  So perhaps they were aggressive about trying to open new pony markets.

That could be the case, although I'm not sure Takara and Hasbro had such a tight relationship back in 1985 as they do today. At the time Hasbro was also licensing transforming robot toys from Takara's competitors in Japan and selling them as Transformers in the US. Meanwhile, Takara held the license for Barbie in Japan and imported Masters of the Universe as well. Both brands belonging to Hasbro's biggest rival, Mattel.

For the sake of more toy history, Takara Barbie became an original property when they lost the rights to the name, and the doll was renamed Jenny. Takara still owned the rights to the molds, so there was no problem. Takara Tomy recently released a series of "nostalgic" Jenny dolls that are very similar in style to their '80s Barbies (but of course the boxes still say Jenny).

Takara's redesigned Barbie was a huge success back in the day, while the original US style dolls had had a lukewarm reception at best. So I can see the logic behind taking another popular brand from the west and reinventing it for the Japanese market. In hindsight, Takara probably thought they could've handled it better. 

[lovesbabysquirmy]

As much as I dream of a re-release of the Japanese Takara (DREAMMMMM!  WITH SHINY EYES!!!!!!!!)... it's probably best to keep saving up for the real thing.  They do go on sale fairly often, they just command higher prices. 

There are some fan-produced Takara items, maybe you would enjoy those too?  Shelvesofwhimsy has an online shop, I think there are one or two other people who make Takara-styled items.    T-shirts, mugs, phone accessories, etc.

[KarentheUnicorn]

Does anyone here believe it to be possible to get the Takaras re-released, in light of the franchise's 35th anniversary, if prototype ponies have rallies behind them (fingers crossed that they both succeed)?

It's a bit like yoda said: Do or do not, there is no try. Like other collectors, if you wanted something released, you'd have to do the homework and such to start a petition, to get what you want. That's what some collectors are doing with the Celestials.

but on the other hand, I feel like the celestial ponies that are prototypes don't, either- having never been released, and only appearing in a catalogue.

The celestial ponies are a bit of a different animal in terms of, it was something we would have seen if they had went into production.

While the ponies you are talking about have been produced, even though they were in Japan, it's still something you can get if you have the time and the money to devote to finding/purchasing one.

While the only way you can get a Celestial pony is to make a custom, which doesn't really qualify as 'official' from Hasbro.

So  you're really talking about two different things here.

As a collector of MLP if I have my choice, I'm going with the Celestial Ponies; they would be based on something hasbro intended to possibly make as part of the original MLP line. While the Takara ponies are sort of an offshoot that I don't technically consider G1 My Little Pony. It's sort of like a different thing that I wouldn't consider you have to collect as part of a MLP G1 line. While to me the Celestial Ponies would be.

[Carrehz]

Pretty much what everyone else said.

The thing is, retro G1 ponies are a good idea from a sales point of view since there's a lot of markets they could appeal to (well, in theory): collectors, kids, adults who aren't collectors but had ponies as kids and feel nostalgic for something they used to play with, etc. Takaras are niche even within the collecting community - there's really not a market for them for the general public. Yeah, people might be interested in them, but it's nowhere near a "guaranteed" market like G1s are.

Also as others have mentioned, there could be licensing issues involved in reproducing them. Perhaps Takara could reissue them under a different name, but getting them under the MLP name again could be very different.

Honestly, if you're that interested in Takaras I'd recommend you either save up for one, settle for fakie babies, or as Taffeta suggested, see if the HQG1C guys would be interested in making Oshare na Ponies. Seems like it'd be worth a go; doesn't cost anything to ask, after all.