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Author Topic: Hopes and speculation for gen 5  (Read 1080 times)

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Offline Al-1701

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Re: Hopes and speculation for gen 5
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2018, 11:22:19 AM »
Something to chew on.  Can we have an actual queen this time?  Really, what many people probably think of when they hear "queen" is Queen Elizabeth II.  So, why not have the queen be a sweet grandmotherly type (who can kick all kinds of tail when her country is threatened like Majesty in G1)?

That kind of underrepresents the considerable number of European countries who have their own monarchic systems, and probably don't think of our Queen over their own. It's not like Britain is the only monarchy in Europe, or even the world.

I suspect Majesty probably was based around that concept, to be honest ;) albeit it's said that there are a lot of people who wouldn't want to mess with the Queen even at her age...
I meant she is probably the most globally recognized queen (especially ruling queen rather than wife of the king), there are obviously many of them across the world and history.  I just think the "people think of queens as evil" justification for making Celestia a princess was faulty.

I've always pictured Majesty as an older and stately lady.  She mostly stays in her castle because she is physically delicate in her old age and she can use her powerful magic to help her young subjects from there with her magic mirror.  However, when a crisis compels her to leave her sanctuary and deal with it personally, Hell is five steps behind her.
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Offline Taffeta

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Re: Hopes and speculation for gen 5
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2018, 11:33:14 AM »
Something to chew on.  Can we have an actual queen this time?  Really, what many people probably think of when they hear "queen" is Queen Elizabeth II.  So, why not have the queen be a sweet grandmotherly type (who can kick all kinds of tail when her country is threatened like Majesty in G1)?

That kind of underrepresents the considerable number of European countries who have their own monarchic systems, and probably don't think of our Queen over their own. It's not like Britain is the only monarchy in Europe, or even the world.

I suspect Majesty probably was based around that concept, to be honest ;) albeit it's said that there are a lot of people who wouldn't want to mess with the Queen even at her age...
I meant she is probably the most globally recognized queen (especially ruling queen rather than wife of the king), there are obviously many of them across the world and history.  I just think the "people think of queens as evil" justification for making Celestia a princess was faulty.


I think there are reasons for that, largely that the originating country doesn't really see the point in a Queen, since they got rid of the monarchy a long time ago. Evil queens have thus dominated popular fiction since. I think that's why Majesty was dominant in the stories here but occluded in the US. It wasn't as culturally relevant to use her in that context.

In my childhood canon, Majesty had gone a bit senile and Sapphire ruled in her stead (when she wasn't trying to stop her mother turning everything into chaos). But I was a bit odd as a kid. I don't think Majesty was ever an evil queen. She was just the figure of authority and as you say, if she got serious, that was it for the bad guy. But it did also explain why people wanted to steal her invisibility shoes (eat your heart out Harry Potter) and her magic mirror. She did have some pretty cool stuff, as well her endless collection of sing-songy unicorn spells...

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Offline KarentheUnicorn

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Re: Hopes and speculation for gen 5
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2018, 02:20:28 PM »
I seem to remeber something in context of queen in association with g4 as to why celestia is a princess and not a queen. It was some nonsense about kids seeing queen as negative or something like that.
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Offline nightmare muffin

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Re: Hopes and speculation for gen 5
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2018, 02:29:00 PM »
I seem to remeber something in context of queen in association with g4 as to why celestia is a princess and not a queen. It was some nonsense about kids seeing queen as negative or something like that.
yup, that's it exactly. Becuse kids have been brainwashed by Disney to believe that.  But even now, Isney is backpedaling by making QUEEN Elsa from Frozen, and throwing jabs at their own formula with what defines a Disney Princess, in Moana, with Maui's lnes of dialogue.

Offline Taffeta

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Re: Hopes and speculation for gen 5
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2018, 03:09:38 PM »
I find this interesting given that I do representation of stuff. I really wonder whether it's all about the Queen being something that the US associate with Britain, therefore previous colonial crimes and such like, and as a result, want to separate away from it as an 'evil' thing not democratically elected. Let's not forget that British characters/actors are also often villains in US shows, maintaining that slightly chilling upper class clinical stereotype (or the exact opposite. I find this hilarious xD).

I have noticed that when the President appears in kids shows, it's usually a positive portrayal. Correct me if I'm wrong. The one that sticks in my mind is that awful Jem episode with that awful song at the end, where the President helps save Synergy after Synergy and Jem help to save the President (and he's told Jem's secret). There are some not so positive representations of cold war Eastern Europe and monarchy in the series as well.

On the flip, though, it might not be the concept of monarchy at all. I mean, we do have a lot of royal fantasy coming out of the US in spite of the apparent dislike of Queens. It might be the idea of a Queen in her own right as being somehow too independent in the times past. When you consider Disney history and the really patronising presentation of female characters in the much older stuff, you can see where that idea might have come from, with 'evil' queens and innocent maidens or princesses who require a prince to rescue them. Then he would become King and by default, she'd be Queen. Which is really out of date, not least in real monarchies, where Queens have ruled in their own right for a very long time. (See Boudicca, Cleopatra. and others!)

Let's not forget that Hasbro didn't ever call Majesty Queen. Not even in the UK, although it was pretty much understood and a lot of the fantasy countries in the comic did have Queens or Kings or both.  Still Majesty never got that official title, which is interesting. Hasbro was fine with a lot of Princesses, which may suggest this is more about women holding the top spot than it is anything else...

Interesting food for thought, but I tend to agree that it's about time Ponyland had a Queen rather than a Princess, if indeed it needs a royal monarchy.

As for Disney, they have only just begun to get the point that a story doesn't need to have a Prince to marry for it to be a happy ever after. Frozen sort of began it, but Moana really broke away from the idea that a woman is only complete when she finds her prince and marries him. It makes me suspect that this is the real root core of it all - that princesses wait for princes, while Queens rule and we can't have women doing that O.O. now can we? ;)

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Offline Al-1701

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Re: Hopes and speculation for gen 5
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2018, 11:37:19 PM »
I seem to remeber something in context of queen in association with g4 as to why celestia is a princess and not a queen. It was some nonsense about kids seeing queen as negative or something like that.
yup, that's it exactly. Becuse kids have been brainwashed by Disney to believe that.  But even now, Isney is backpedaling by making QUEEN Elsa from Frozen, and throwing jabs at their own formula with what defines a Disney Princess, in Moana, with Maui's lnes of dialogue.
That logic doesn't work either.  There have been a grand total of TWO evil queens in the Disney canon (and the Queen of Hearts was less so much evil as bat you know what insane) and both were based off their EUROPEAN origins.  The queen in Snow White isn't even evil in the context of being queen but being incredibly vein and jealous to the point of unhealthy obsession her step daughter is better looking than her.
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Offline Leave a Whisper

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Re: Hopes and speculation for gen 5
« Reply #51 on: January 10, 2018, 12:40:49 AM »
I seem to remeber something in context of queen in association with g4 as to why celestia is a princess and not a queen. It was some nonsense about kids seeing queen as negative or something like that.
yup, that's it exactly. Becuse kids have been brainwashed by Disney to believe that.  But even now, Isney is backpedaling by making QUEEN Elsa from Frozen, and throwing jabs at their own formula with what defines a Disney Princess, in Moana, with Maui's lnes of dialogue.
That logic doesn't work either.  There have been a grand total of TWO evil queens in the Disney canon (and the Queen of Hearts was less so much evil as bat you know what insane) and both were based off their EUROPEAN origins.  The queen in Snow White isn't even evil in the context of being queen but being incredibly vein and jealous to the point of unhealthy obsession her step daughter is better looking than her.

She did try to kill her  twice. That's pretty evil. A lot of Disney protags are usually raised by one parent anyway.
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Offline Al-1701

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Re: Hopes and speculation for gen 5
« Reply #52 on: January 10, 2018, 01:16:33 AM »
I meant her evilness did not come out of her being queen but being the jealous stepmother.  Make her the mistress of a manor, and you've not really changed anything about the story.
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Offline Leave a Whisper

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Re: Hopes and speculation for gen 5
« Reply #53 on: January 10, 2018, 01:44:02 AM »
I meant her evilness did not come out of her being queen but being the jealous stepmother.  Make her the mistress of a manor, and you've not really changed anything about the story.

Yes I know that.
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