eBay - I can't refund my buyer

[tulagirl]

Oh my goodness what a mess. I am so sorry.  What I don't understand is why people who buy internationally don't understand all that is involved with that process.

[Taffeta]

Oh my goodness what a mess. I am so sorry.  What I don't understand is why people who buy internationally don't understand all that is involved with that process.

While I understand your sentiments, I think that the way you phrased your statement is a rather sweeping indictment of the vast majority of people who buy internationally who do understand all that is involved in the process, possibly better than a lot of the sellers do.

The OP is clearly a great seller and a very open-minded one as a lot of people don't like to ship to Russia. As she stated she's had smooth transactions doing so in the past, this is clearly an unfortunate one-off situation in which this particular buyer (and maybe the holiday and the language barrier) has created a misunderstanding.

Let's not use this as a reason to generalise against people who buy internationally.

[lovesbabysquirmy]

Oh my goodness what a mess. I am so sorry.  What I don't understand is why people who buy internationally don't understand all that is involved with that process.

Many of them are not in a kind and caring community like this one.  Hence they are not educated international buyers...
I don' t think the statement from  tulagirl was meant disparagingly...  just UGH I wish there was some way to educate international buyers before they click, that there WILL be fees, there WILL be taxes, the shipping IS pricey, this experience is nothing like walking into your local shop and walking out with a purchase like one does for food!!!    And currency conversion and Paypal fees and bank fees make things even MORE expensive. 

Just because we have a globalized economy does not mean that things are less expensive, they are just are more accessible.  like using Ebay. 

I am sure Ebay has faced this very situation before - they have policies surrounding this stuff, even if the buyer keeps crying that they don't want to read the policies... 

[foalpatrol]

In response to my email to eBay, I received an email saying they would arrange a callback for me within 24 hours.  They called me this morning and I explained the issue.  Told me it was PayPal's problem (which it isn't, it's eBay who hasn't followed through and closed the case) and said they needed confirmation from PayPal that the refund had been made (which was already given to them in the phone call last week).  Told me they would make a three-way call to PayPal, but ended up transferring me instead!

I explained to PayPal what happened, and they released the held funds. If they had just done that last week when I asked, I would have been able to refund the buyer that way!  After they did that, I asked them to transfer me back to eBay so I wouldn't have to request another phone call.  The lady told me that PayPal don't transfer calls, and that she could lose her job if she did.  Uhh, but the person I spoke to at PayPal last week could!

So, after 46 minutes, I had to hang up and request another call from eBay.  Fortunately they called within five minutes.  The person I spoke to said she needed proof of the payment, and asked for a screenshot.  She emailed me with a link and asked me to upload the screenshot.  I did so while she was on the phone.  She said it would take up to another 24 hours for them to receive the screenshot and close the case in my favour, and to call back then if the case still wasn't closed.  I'm not holding my breath.

That phone call took 29 minutes.  I have now spent 147 minutes on the phone trying to fix this mess.

[tulagirl]

Oh my goodness what a mess. I am so sorry.  What I don't understand is why people who buy internationally don't understand all that is involved with that process.

Many of them are not in a kind and caring community like this one.  Hence they are not educated international buyers...
I don' t think the statement from  tulagirl was meant disparagingly...  just UGH I wish there was some way to educate international buyers before they click, that there WILL be fees, there WILL be taxes, the shipping IS pricey, this experience is nothing like walking into your local shop and walking out with a purchase like one does for food!!!    And currency conversion and Paypal fees and bank fees make things even MORE expensive. 

Just because we have a globalized economy does not mean that things are less expensive, they are just are more accessible.  like using Ebay. 

I am sure Ebay has faced this very situation before - they have policies surrounding this stuff, even if the buyer keeps crying that they don't want to read the policies... 

 Thank you Lovesbabysquirmy for understanding where I was coming from here.  I agree with your post. 

In response to my email to eBay, I received an email saying they would arrange a callback for me within 24 hours.  They called me this morning and I explained the issue.  Told me it was PayPal's problem (which it isn't, it's eBay who hasn't followed through and closed the case) and said they needed confirmation from PayPal that the refund had been made (which was already given to them in the phone call last week).  Told me they would make a three-way call to PayPal, but ended up transferring me instead!

I explained to PayPal what happened, and they released the held funds. If they had just done that last week when I asked, I would have been able to refund the buyer that way!  After they did that, I asked them to transfer me back to eBay so I wouldn't have to request another phone call.  The lady told me that PayPal don't transfer calls, and that she could lose her job if she did.  Uhh, but the person I spoke to at PayPal last week could!

So, after 46 minutes, I had to hang up and request another call from eBay.  Fortunately they called within five minutes.  The person I spoke to said she needed proof of the payment, and asked for a screenshot.  She emailed me with a link and asked me to upload the screenshot.  I did so while she was on the phone.  She said it would take up to another 24 hours for them to receive the screenshot and close the case in my favour, and to call back then if the case still wasn't closed.  I'm not holding my breath.

That phone call took 29 minutes.  I have now spent 147 minutes on the phone trying to fix this mess.

I can't wrap my head around why this is happening to you the way it is. I really hope they can get this issue closed properly. Uggg

[foalpatrol]

And the latest - eBay have just emailed me saying I should check that the buyer has received the refund and ask her to close the case.

Despite telling me repeatedly that they would close the case once they received the screenshot.

*facepalm*

[bluerose9978]

And the latest - eBay have just emailed me saying I should check that the buyer has received the refund and ask her to close the case.

Despite telling me repeatedly that they would close the case once they received the screenshot.

*facepalm*

I see another phone call in your future unfortunately. I'm so sorry this has occurred. It would be helpful if there was a help desk for NZ sellers. Hopefully you are able to resolve this matter soon. It seems like it shouldn't be this complicated for eBay.

[foalpatrol]

I see another phone call in your future unfortunately. I'm so sorry this has occurred. It would be helpful if there was a help desk for NZ sellers. Hopefully you are able to resolve this matter soon. It seems like it shouldn't be this complicated for eBay.

I'm seeing another phone call in my future too. I responded to the email telling them that the buyer was unlikely to close the case as they were trying to extract more funds from me, and received another message saying they would get back to me within 72 hours.

Their customer service is a complete shambles - it seems that no one knows what they're doing, and cases are handled by dozens of different people with no cohesion.  You speak to two different people and get two completely different answers.  If they just trained everyone in the same way and had the different departments actually communicate with each other, people might not have to spend hours on the phone trying to fix things.  It would be helpful if they had an NZ help desk as international lines aren't great and it's difficult to hear what they are asking sometimes which drags it out even longer.  Will try again tomorrow I guess. 

On a positive note, I feel I have enough evidence and file notes lodged on eBay's side now that if they buyer does ask eBay to step in and resolve things, there's a decent chance it will be in my favour.  But again, not holding my breath.


Latest update:

After much back-and-forth from eBay, they told me that the screenshot I sent them was valid proof of the refund, and while they could not close the case right away, it would be closed in my favour on the 10th. 

A couple of hours later, the buyer escalated the case.  I felt fairly confident as I had it in writing from eBay that the case would be closed in my favour.

Overnight last night, the case was closed in the buyer's favour and her money was refunded, even though I'd already refunded her. 

There was also an email in my inbox from a different customer service rep, who told me that the screenshot was not valid as the amount was different (I had by this time explained this to eBay a dozen times about currencies, you'd think an international sales site might realise that different countries use different currencies by now)!  She also said that the user in the screenshot was different to the ebay user - what??? I responded and told her to look again at the screenshot, the user was the same, and that I had it in writing from ebay that the screenshot was valid and the case would be closed in my favour, and yet the opposite had happened.

I then received a generic copy and paste response telling me how to appeal a case decision.

I feel eBay have well and truly screwed me over at this point.  Not only have the funds been refunded twice, they haven't done a single thing that they said they'd do, and now I have a seller defect to my name, despite spending hours trying to avoid this, and receiving written assurance this wouldn't happen.

[northstar3184]

Unbelievable.....just unbelievable. That's infuriating and absolutely ridiculous. I know it's the absolute last thing you want to do, but I'd be getting in touch with Ebay yet again. This is just so very wrong.

[tulagirl]

Unbelievable.....just unbelievable. That's infuriating and absolutely ridiculous. I know it's the absolute last thing you want to do, but I'd be getting in touch with Ebay yet again. This is just so very wrong.

This this this.  I am just shocked. Please try to appeal.  I am so sorry you have gone through this.  It really shows me some problems in ebay's system for sure.  It is a concern to me that this would happen.   It is very unfair to you as a seller to have done what you were supposed to do and this was the result.  If I was the buyer I would be returning the overage to you because, I have done it before when there was a goofy thing that happened in a case of mine years ago.  I had a seller in France that sent me something but I never got it.  After two months I filed a case.  He refunded me and then the item showed up so I paid him back, but ebay had also sent funds.  I made sure he got that back because, I never knew why that happened.  I wonder if it was similar issue you had.  I just didn't feel right about having money for something that finally arrived.  I also didn't feel right about having more money than I paid, so I took care of the seller.  They never said a word to me, but I felt better about it.  I hope you buyer does this also for your sake.

[lovesbabysquirmy]

Do not give up on Ebay - this is wrong and they need to make it right!!!

[foalpatrol]

Thanks everyone for your support and understanding.  I'm glad this all seems as crazy to you as it does to me.

Things seem to be mostly resolved now.  I contacted eBay and asked them to remove the seller defect.  They said it would be done by the end of the week, although I've repeatedly checked my account and it doesn't look like it was ever applied in the first place. (Finally, their incompetence is working in my favour for once.)

The buyer refunded me the initial refund that I sent her.

I contacted eBay and asked them to refund my fees.  They refunded the fees for one auction and not the other (it was a two-pony purchase).  I then asked them to refund the second auction and they did so but not the shipping fees.  I have emailed them a third time to get the shipping fees refunded. 

I've decided not to try explaining things further to the buyer, I'm fairly sure she just thinks I'm trying to scam her and I don't blame her for thinking that, if someone told me they had no way to refund me after I opened a case, I would probably think that too.  I'll just leave it alone.

I considered writing a formal letter of complaint to eBay about their customer service, but decided against it as it won't do any good.  Their customer service department is an area of the business that makes them no money, it is just an overhead that they want to spend as little as possible on.  Their customer service will always be terrible and will never get any better.  I had a bad feeling from the start when I was advised to make an unsecured friends and family payment with no link to the eBay transaction.  The customer service reps are given the minimum possible training, and as I have come to realise,  don't necessarily know more than I do.  Next time I'll trust my own judgement.

[Taffeta]

It sounds like a nightmare, but I'm glad you got it resolved. And at the very least the buyer was not out to scam you, because she refunded the other amount back to you and you didn't lose money. She could have stolen it, but she didn't, so it seems that it was the language barrier more than anything that was causing the problem.

Ebay are a problem in their own right. Which is why I am not so big on selling there any more :/ I am good with buyers and their various quirks, but you are exactly right about their customer service. They genuinely aren't interested.