Early meaning of "cutie mark"?

[Baby Sugarberry]

Also - someone mentioned about brands as a term? I imagine they avoided that to avoid the inconvenient fact that branding an animal is usually a mark of ownership. That would imply the ponies were enslaved to some other power, which is a very...dark..path to go down. Definitely better to call them cutie marks, which may sound silly, but is generally not implying they're all possessions.

Also the whole "burnt into your skin, painfully" thing... yeah.  Not hard to see why they'd avoid using 'brand'. 

[LadyMoondancer]

Well, if the show were being realistic it would be like: "Yeah, a bunch of ponies are going to end up in low-paying unfulfilling jobs, living hand to mouth (hoof to mouth?) and ultimately dying without having accomplished your dreams."  But I think that's a bit too heavy for little kids.

I saw calves being branded once.  Definitely understand why they didn't use brand.  It's really disturbing and painful for the animal.

[Sunset]

...I don't like the cutie mark destiny concept. I think it tells kids that once they've chosen what their life will be then they are stuck with it - and that's categorically not true.

Not to mention the implied "there is One Thing you will be awesome at and that is going to be the thing you are known for, forever."  And the whole deep dark can of worms that was opened by the episode where they switched marks and weren't happy with each other's lives, but felt compelled to do them because 'that's what their cutie marks were telling them to be'.

I actually find some of those ideas problematic. I mean, the idea that a bad guy is going to become your friend if you are nice enough to them....really worries me because it encourages kids to trust people who maybe they shouldn't trust. Some bad people are just going to be bad people. And friendship is a great thing, but I worry about how many kids' shows privilege it as a theme nowadays. It's a lot more complicated than that for some kids to find friends. (I also don't really believe Twilight and co are friends, but they're kind of forced to be because of the Elements of Harmony). Weirdly, I do believe they are friends in EQG, but I think that's, again, because of Sunset Shimmer changing the balance and making them all kind of work a little harder at being friends.

And cutie marks defining who they are is like someone else is telling you what you have to be and you have to fulfil that even if you don't want to. It stands in stark contrast to what Mattel tried to do with Ever After High (albeit maybe they failed) in implying your destiny wasn't carved out for you and you could still write a new story even if the world was trying to push you in a particular direction. I know the cutie marks aren't pushing them necessarily, but having to live up to your cutie mark...I mean, what if your cutie mark is a skull and crossbones but you like ballet? Do you become the first ever ballerina pirate? I just don't know.

(Also, unless Fluttershy is going to become a butterfly, I don't get how her mark really reflects her personality. There are lots of other ways to reflect being gentle or reflect being fond of nature...which I think are her two main attributes).

Also - someone mentioned about brands as a term? I imagine they avoided that to avoid the inconvenient fact that branding an animal is usually a mark of ownership. That would imply the ponies were enslaved to some other power, which is a very...dark..path to go down. Definitely better to call them cutie marks, which may sound silly, but is generally not implying they're all possessions.

There have actually been some episodes about the fears of getting a cutie mark you don't want.  Most notably a recent episode where a colt didn't want one because he was afraid he would get one different from the one thing he really wanted to do.  The resolution was the older brother showing him that even though he (the older brother) had a cutie mark in one thing it didn't stop him from enjoying doing other things, too.

I feel like the idea is more that cutie marks are about self realization and therefor it would be impossible to get one that you hated.  (The Magical Mystery Cure was a spell gone wrong and so that was a special case.)

I do agree that sometimes the concept of cutie marks is limiting.  But for me, it's mostly because I just want prettily designed ponies without having to justify the cutie mark with a special talent or job.

[Ponyfan]

I agree with many of the points that have been made in this thread regarding symbols/rump designs and problems with FIM.


I also have a problem with FIM's recurring theme of if you treat everyone nicely and are friendly with them they'll eventually become your friend.  I know FIM isn't supposed to be bound by reality, but in real life no matter how nice you are to people, some people will still be mean to you and not be your friend. I tried to make friends in school but was often teased and made fun of just because other kids decided that I wasn't worth being a friend to. I was never a big fan of Diamond Tiara but I liked that despite the CMC's efforts to make friends and be nice to her that she refused and still made fun of them since it was showing that not everyone is going to be your friend.


Brand/branding would be too negative for an official term and might give kids the idea that someone owns the ponies and they're not truly free.
The G1 ponies had enough problems trying escape/defeat all of the creatures that wanted to enslave them in some way. 


Ponyfan

[Taffeta]

That's interesting, thank you Sunset. It's almost as if they've realised the risk of limitations on the term and so were trying to broaden it out a bit.

In that example, the brother did a lot of things but had one "main thing" which was his cutie mark, I assume. It's problematic for them because either they undermine the whole concept of the lore by saying that cutie marks aren't determining your fate overall...or they basically say you can't change your mind once you've decided, which is the same problem I raised before. People have different interests and goals throughout their life. I don't think that it's too big a concept to let kids know that they don't have to decide their whole lives in whatever age group the CMC are. They need to know that life changes and so do they.

@LM, that's a bit extreme, and not what I meant. It's obviously a bad message to send kids that people who do bad stuff can be trusted because they need you to befriend them. Some safety guidance needed of the don't talk to strangers kind I think there. And I feel like there's 'befriend' mode and 'villain' mode and the latter is generally solved by the former. But that's not really teaching kids how to handle their real life situations.

@Ponyfan, thank you, you said it better than I could. I was trying to work out how to really explain it. As a person with autism who had friends in school but was also bullied all through school by teachers and by students, the world is not like Equestria for many kids. And telling them it should be just reinforces the idea there's something wrong with them, because they find it harder to make friends.

[Lilja]

I think the main problem with FIM's rump marking lore is that the writers tried to make it both a metaphor for finding your calling in life, but also for puberty. While you can make interesting stories about either of these, they are two very different things.

I think it's fine that an adult pony gets their cutie mark once they realize what they like to do and how that ties to their role in pony society. Obviously real life is more complicated, but as a metaphor in a fantasy world I think it's perfectly fine and can make for some good stories. A child however can't possibly know what they will dedicate the rest of their life to, so fillies shouldn't really have cutie marks at all if this is the lore we're going with. Unless a cutie mark can be changed, but we've had no indiciation this is possible. If it was, that could also make for an interesting story, but it does seem like a cutie mark can't be earned to begin with unless you're 100% certain about what you want to do.

In any case, it's an interesting concept that opens up for a lot of discussion. I think the writers could have done more to define what a cutie mark actually means, and we would've had a stronger show overall. Still, I prefer it to not acknowledging the rump markings at all. I'm looking forward to see how future iterations will handle it.

[lockette]

I have a Tshirt somewhere from the early 2000s with two G1s on it and little closeups of their symbols, and it said "official rump design!" which still tickles me to this day. the shirt is packed away somewhere, wish I could share it atm!