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Author Topic: IF Internet Neutrality Fails: Getting Rid of the Arena  (Read 2719 times)

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Offline lovesbabysquirmy

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Re: IF Internet Neutrality Fails: Getting Rid of the Arena
« Reply #60 on: December 15, 2017, 03:33:52 PM »
The net neutrality regulations imposed utility-style regulation on Internet service providers such as Comcast, AT&T and Verizon to prevent them from favoring their own digital services over their rivals – for instance, by blocking or slowing certain content.

 If they do decide to block content...wouldn't a VPN be able to get past the local ISP's? I used one in China to bypass their internet censorship to access sites like FB, Youtube, ect. I would pick a location - usually Hong Kong, Tokyo or Seoul and it would trick the "whatever it is" into thinking I was accessing the net from another location and not from inside China.


No.  You still need your original ISP to "get a signal out" to hook up to a VPN.  And the data traffic/bandwidth signature while using a VPN or torrent is unmistakable.  All the ISP's have to do is throttle your bandwidth speed until you can barely do anything with your VPN hookup.  When the data signatures show your ISP that you're back to watching Youtube, they'll open your bandwidth up again.  ;) 

Let us just see what happens...  it's not like net neutrality has been with us since the Dawn of the Internet!!!  It's been law for about two years only :(
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Offline melodys_angel

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Re: IF Internet Neutrality Fails: Getting Rid of the Arena
« Reply #61 on: December 15, 2017, 05:40:29 PM »
I honestly don't think they will get too far.  There are lawsuits already popping up and people are screaming.  People = customers=the ones paying for it=companies will have to listen or face a boycott.
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Offline BlackCurtains

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Re: IF Internet Neutrality Fails: Getting Rid of the Arena
« Reply #62 on: December 15, 2017, 07:25:59 PM »
I've been following everything through the Imgur community mostly. I did write (my own) emails, for all the good it did.

My ISP is Comcast, who already nickel and dime you to death, have horrid customer service, and they totally data cap on the weekends even though they say they don't. I bet they're just loving this.
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Offline Galactica

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Re: IF Internet Neutrality Fails: Getting Rid of the Arena
« Reply #63 on: December 15, 2017, 07:57:17 PM »
Wow. I guess we wait to see what happens?  According to what I've read, we won't see changes right away- maybe by next year?

The problem is- by the time that changes are happening, it will be too late to "google" a fix or work around...

Will the Arena become a ghost town?

Offline kamakazee82

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Re: IF Internet Neutrality Fails: Getting Rid of the Arena
« Reply #64 on: December 16, 2017, 02:29:23 AM »
oh the changes will be slow ... they will creep it in on us a little at a time  ... and it became a law when ISPs started doing this stuff, calling into question the legality ... it was an issue already at the time NN came into existence and made it illegal ...
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Offline WingsOfMasquerade

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Re: IF Internet Neutrality Fails: Getting Rid of the Arena
« Reply #65 on: December 16, 2017, 08:57:10 AM »
Well...we did lose.
But, the fight is not over, as has been said right here. To BlackCurtains: It DID do good! All these comments and complaining? It built up to something like 22 million people speaking out in favor of the neutrality. And, it ties RIGHT in there with what Melodys Angel says: The lawsuits, the NY Senator introducing a bill, and the efforts to prove the FCC was negligent and mishandled the entire thing/public commentary period. (Which they did do) It's this kind of technicality thing that the lawyers can get them on, because we did speak out, and it's provable that they did nothing. Also so so so many like 2 mil fraud comments they never addressed that were fakes.

Anyone who commented/called/texted/emailed or wrote a letter to your rep / any rep: THANK YOU. You mattered. Your voice did get heard, even though it doesn't seem like it now. All these voices are the ammo for 'what comes next'. Which is NY guy's bill & the effort to show up the FCC.

LovesbabySquirmy:
Your point is super duper important. It's exactly what everyone on the ISP's side is arguing "makes it ok" because technically it only existed since 2015. That's true. However, The FCC did not oversee ISPs pre-2015, the FTC did; and yes, perhaps most famously Level 3 Communications had made this accusation in 2014 of several major broadband companies throttling connection to Netflix among other services. When this stuff came up, the FTC said "Well hey go to the FCC they can Title 2 the internet & stop that." But that is confusing so:

1. Before 2015 there wasn't the Title 2.
Title 2 = The internet is like a phone line or a water pipe. ALL water and ALL voice goes through it regardless. Some water isn't special. Schools don't get slower water because they're not paying as much as an office tower. If Bell Telephone hates Pizza Hut they can't stop you from calling pizza hut. If Bell Phone hates Catholics, they can't make voice reception to churches all really bad.

2. So why didn't they do all bad before 2015?
Because the FTC COULD sue them. The possibility was there. It hung overhead. Sometimes the providers did get sued for bad things or slapped around. To think of it in a way: The OLD rule did not hold up the sky. The Old Rule was a threat that they sky could fall if someone got out of line too much. Now, there is no rule at all. There is no threat to them if they do bad. And so:

1. Pay hundreds of millions of dollars to buy a knife that ONLY stabs people
2. Swear you will never stab people with it (that's where we are right now)
3. ????
4. Stab everyone because that's what you paid to do.

They lobbied so hard and put in Shill Pai the Verizon Admitted Crony and spent all the money to take the rules away but right now they're promising they won't break them, just like it was in 2015 where they trod on toes occasionally. However, they did not pay all that money to sit and be good and do nothing different.

Kamakazee82 and Galactica are 100% right.
They're going to want to creep because anything now and people will flip lids. They're hoping for that ????? step above so that they can begin to erode things before they start blocking.

What does erosion look like?
Neftlix always buffering
AAA games online work great, foreign games or indies have awful ping/barely playable
Hulu barely works unless you're on the ISP who likes them
Crunchyroll=anime buffers 5 mins before all content
Places like the Arena get slowed down so pages load as if they're dial up because the Arena won't pay to get out of the slow lane

Where does it lead?
To the blocking that's been mentioned before. They can block by words too...so pages with stuff like this written on them:
"Net Neutrality"
or
Women's Rights
or
Verizon is bad because
or
We need to protest
or
Vote for a Democrat in _____
because those words could be a threat to them, they can just 404 that page or tell you it's unavailable. The idea is that the internet can organize people against stuff that infringes on them. **Which already happened! 22 Million Comments & protests now & all we did for NN the FIRST TIME 2015** (See also the #metoo, see also how Weinstine got ruined/smashed as everyone stepped up: if the internet wasn't here you'd never hear of him being bad & he'd still be where he was, see also every time some video or voice clip of someone being bad gets exposed, etc)
If you want to infringe (which they paid to do) you have to take away that part of the internet. By shutting off the voice that could stop them from getting more money by blocking the pages that talk about stopping them, or just talk about things they don't agree with. It's really easy to imagine stuff like 'black lives matter' or 'synagogue' or 'anti-war with north Korea' or 'police state' being no-no words in a year or two if they get away with what they want.  Nobody is supposed to notice when stuff like that can't get said. But by then, it's too late to say anything about it.

Offline lovesbabysquirmy

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Re: IF Internet Neutrality Fails: Getting Rid of the Arena
« Reply #66 on: December 16, 2017, 03:03:00 PM »

If you want to infringe (which they paid to do) you have to take away that part of the internet. By shutting off the voice that could stop them from getting more money by blocking the pages that talk about stopping them, or just talk about things they don't agree with. It's really easy to imagine stuff like 'black lives matter' or 'synagogue' or 'anti-war with north Korea' or 'police state' being no-no words in a year or two if they get away with what they want.  Nobody is supposed to notice when stuff like that can't get said. But by then, it's too late to say anything about it.

Which is how China's internet access operates...
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Offline Pikashoes

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Re: IF Internet Neutrality Fails: Getting Rid of the Arena
« Reply #67 on: December 16, 2017, 03:46:32 PM »
I hear a few states are going to sue now because it is illegal what they just passed. So definitely the fight is still going so no one loose hope!
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 03:04:37 AM by Pikashoes »
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Offline Wardah

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Re: IF Internet Neutrality Fails: Getting Rid of the Arena
« Reply #68 on: December 17, 2017, 02:05:48 AM »
Also while we are worried about what the big ISPs will do even small ones could be a danger. An ultra religious person could start a small ISP that intentionally filters out "unholy" content. Ultra religious parents could make that company their internet provider and then their teenager is sheltered from important information.
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Offline WingsOfMasquerade

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Re: IF Internet Neutrality Fails: Getting Rid of the Arena
« Reply #69 on: January 05, 2018, 05:25:09 AM »
Got a minute to read?
Take a look at what's to come written by someone in a related field. Everyone knew some kind of detail or plan would appear at some point in January, and so, as predicted, it has happened & now been outlined below.
Wardah: This does get rid of your fear of the religgo ISP, because it gets rid of any and all isps other than the ones here now.
If you read through this, you'll soon see how sinister this whole thing is going to get & when/how it will do so. The following is NOT written by me, (all thing in quote below is very well written, but not by me) I am adding a quote from an article by a guy who's name is likely a bit of a swear soooooooooooooo:

"*tl;dr: This is part of a five step process to turn broadband data in the US into the monetization platform cable TV had. This is due to cord cutting. Source : multiple contacts in the industry including myself to an extent *

Edit: Step 3 is happening way sooner than expected. Check out the video in another thread and let me know if you notice anything interesting about the language used at the end
Most people are missing the bigger picture here, and it's not about slowing speeds across the board.
The real goal here is to get all data under one umbrella, then impose data caps (extremely low ones), then use the repeal of Net Neutrality to push cable-like packages for things like Netflix and Twitch to have those sites avoid counting against the cap.

The push to get all mobile and otherwise non-broadband data classified as broadband is to assure that any data you use on any device counts against a cap.
The slow and imminent death of cable TV is the cause of this. The reason ISPs didn't start down this path earlier was because cord cutting wasn't nearly as prevalent five years ago, and companies still didn't have a clear cut path to monetizing the internet." (Cord Cutting started happening more & more as people got sick of paying for cable packages with channels they didn't use, paying for it but having to watch ads anyway & paying extreme amounts for shows that 'weren't that good'. It also got more cord cutting because fast internet meant people could watch what they wanted & play games/chat with friends and made TV less important in people's lives.)

"So, this is just the next step. Look for LANGUAGE about caps to come up after midterms, and for aggressive bills to be pushed through allowing very low data caps nationwide.

You will also see some sort of push to completely remove the possibility of start up ISPs. This will take form in an infrastructure bill severely limiting access to poles and underground junctions by new companies without direct permission from the existing ISPs that have cable on those poles.

Step 1: repealing Net Neutrality. This allows them to offer packages that don't count against a data cap.
Step 2: push to classify all data under one umbrella, so all data counts against said cap.
Step 3: eliminate the possibility of local ISP startups or competition by making access to infrastructure either impossible, unreasonably expensive, or take far too much time for a new company to feasibly compete. Edit: To clarify, and to take from another post that I wrote before I saw the new video trying to propagate against local startup/municipal ISPs:

As to the infrastructure side start looking for ads and bills being pushed to "focus on local safety and security" and to "improve infrastructure and roads", these are ways to pass things that don't let upstarts near the junctions, poles, and do the required splicing to actually get access to the existing network.

Step 4: implement data caps. This will be the time where aggressive shilling will take place on the form of "everyone is using so much internet we have to. You can't just let these people take your internet!"

 It's the gamers/torrent-ers/those bad bad people who watch too much video! The internet is a finite resource & they're hogging it away from YOU! We can NEVER IMPROVE our infrastructure from how it was in 2000....it is YOU who must use less so others can have more! CAPS CAPS Improvement of technology is impossible & better service is impossible also, we must cap or no one will get anything ever again.

"Step 5: this is the end game that we are talking about when NN got thrown out. Majority of plans will have a 10-20 GB data plan monthly. Going over will be extremely expensive. Packages will be offered for different websites to not count against that cap. This is where you can expect to pay over 100$ a month for just internet for the same speeds you have now for unlimited access to only certain sites. Torrenting will clearly be hit extremely hard here, as will games.""

Did you read the text wall?
Do you believe it?

Here's an ad that's actually already on air on TV now (if you live in Colorado somewhere)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjulAWmLmx0&feature=youtu.be
(Just look at the video, don't scroll down someone curses it out immediately)
So, with the ad that's real you can see the start of the predicted plan outlined above. Credible threat here...

One of their cities got angry like that Chattanooga TN place & put up a "town broadband" because their politicians voted away the lawyers who were going to sue to stop the town. So, the ISPs are really ragey right now there & paid to put up that ad video that you can watch at that link there above. So, their plan is going along, but there are ways to thwart it.

What does this do?
Shows you that YOU can make a difference by calling your reps
(It worked in Colorado, as proof with the ad--it was citizens standing up there that made their network possible)
And VOTE VOTE VOTE. Get out there and start voting! This is a voting year, go register to do it because it works, then vote out the jerks who would do this. If it gets real cappy and costly like that, I won't be able to afford to come here, and I bet a few other people on this site are in the same boat who can't just shell out an extra 100/month just to have a peep at the Arena.

Offline Wardah

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Re: IF Internet Neutrality Fails: Getting Rid of the Arena
« Reply #70 on: January 05, 2018, 06:38:08 AM »
Got a minute to read?
Take a look at what's to come written by someone in a related field. Everyone knew some kind of detail or plan would appear at some point in January, and so, as predicted, it has happened & now been outlined below.
Wardah: This does get rid of your fear of the religgo ISP, because it gets rid of any and all isps other than the ones here now.
If you read through this, you'll soon see how sinister this whole thing is going to get & when/how it will do so. The following is NOT written by me, (all thing in quote below is very well written, but not by me) I am adding a quote from an article by a guy who's name is likely a bit of a swear soooooooooooooo:

"*tl;dr: This is part of a five step process to turn broadband data in the US into the monetization platform cable TV had. This is due to cord cutting. Source : multiple contacts in the industry including myself to an extent *

Edit: Step 3 is happening way sooner than expected. Check out the video in another thread and let me know if you notice anything interesting about the language used at the end
Most people are missing the bigger picture here, and it's not about slowing speeds across the board.
The real goal here is to get all data under one umbrella, then impose data caps (extremely low ones), then use the repeal of Net Neutrality to push cable-like packages for things like Netflix and Twitch to have those sites avoid counting against the cap.

The push to get all mobile and otherwise non-broadband data classified as broadband is to assure that any data you use on any device counts against a cap.
The slow and imminent death of cable TV is the cause of this. The reason ISPs didn't start down this path earlier was because cord cutting wasn't nearly as prevalent five years ago, and companies still didn't have a clear cut path to monetizing the internet." (Cord Cutting started happening more & more as people got sick of paying for cable packages with channels they didn't use, paying for it but having to watch ads anyway & paying extreme amounts for shows that 'weren't that good'. It also got more cord cutting because fast internet meant people could watch what they wanted & play games/chat with friends and made TV less important in people's lives.)

"So, this is just the next step. Look for LANGUAGE about caps to come up after midterms, and for aggressive bills to be pushed through allowing very low data caps nationwide.

You will also see some sort of push to completely remove the possibility of start up ISPs. This will take form in an infrastructure bill severely limiting access to poles and underground junctions by new companies without direct permission from the existing ISPs that have cable on those poles.

Step 1: repealing Net Neutrality. This allows them to offer packages that don't count against a data cap.
Step 2: push to classify all data under one umbrella, so all data counts against said cap.
Step 3: eliminate the possibility of local ISP startups or competition by making access to infrastructure either impossible, unreasonably expensive, or take far too much time for a new company to feasibly compete. Edit: To clarify, and to take from another post that I wrote before I saw the new video trying to propagate against local startup/municipal ISPs:

As to the infrastructure side start looking for ads and bills being pushed to "focus on local safety and security" and to "improve infrastructure and roads", these are ways to pass things that don't let upstarts near the junctions, poles, and do the required splicing to actually get access to the existing network.

Step 4: implement data caps. This will be the time where aggressive shilling will take place on the form of "everyone is using so much internet we have to. You can't just let these people take your internet!"

 It's the gamers/torrent-ers/those bad bad people who watch too much video! The internet is a finite resource & they're hogging it away from YOU! We can NEVER IMPROVE our infrastructure from how it was in 2000....it is YOU who must use less so others can have more! CAPS CAPS Improvement of technology is impossible & better service is impossible also, we must cap or no one will get anything ever again.

"Step 5: this is the end game that we are talking about when NN got thrown out. Majority of plans will have a 10-20 GB data plan monthly. Going over will be extremely expensive. Packages will be offered for different websites to not count against that cap. This is where you can expect to pay over 100$ a month for just internet for the same speeds you have now for unlimited access to only certain sites. Torrenting will clearly be hit extremely hard here, as will games.""

Did you read the text wall?
Do you believe it?

Here's an ad that's actually already on air on TV now (if you live in Colorado somewhere)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjulAWmLmx0&feature=youtu.be
(Just look at the video, don't scroll down someone curses it out immediately)
So, with the ad that's real you can see the start of the predicted plan outlined above. Credible threat here...

One of their cities got angry like that Chattanooga TN place & put up a "town broadband" because their politicians voted away the lawyers who were going to sue to stop the town. So, the ISPs are really ragey right now there & paid to put up that ad video that you can watch at that link there above. So, their plan is going along, but there are ways to thwart it.

What does this do?
Shows you that YOU can make a difference by calling your reps
(It worked in Colorado, as proof with the ad--it was citizens standing up there that made their network possible)
And VOTE VOTE VOTE. Get out there and start voting! This is a voting year, go register to do it because it works, then vote out the jerks who would do this. If it gets real cappy and costly like that, I won't be able to afford to come here, and I bet a few other people on this site are in the same boat who can't just shell out an extra 100/month just to have a peep at the Arena.

Well that sucks. I have data caps on my phone already. If my home internet starts capping data I'll just cancel them and stick with my phone since the only reason I have home internet is to avoid the cap. I'm sure that's the case for lots of people too so they better watch out or they will find themselves losing customers.
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Offline melodys_angel

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Re: IF Internet Neutrality Fails: Getting Rid of the Arena
« Reply #71 on: January 06, 2018, 06:43:35 PM »
...Did they just try to shove down my throat that the internet is finite?

im sorry. If that's the best they can come up with to brainwash everyone to go with the plan, im sure there will be many many people that will see to a reversal happens.

Don't go lying about that to me or anyone else.  Its going to backfire.  They will loose too many customers.
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