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Author Topic: S7 EP14: Fame and Misfortune (THE GLORIOUS RETURN OF LARSON!!!)  (Read 1251 times)

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Offline Al-1701

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Re: S7 EP14: Fame and Misfortune (THE GLORIOUS RETURN OF LARSON!!!)
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2017, 07:25:02 PM »
I did like how the foals managed to cut through to the meat of the journal.

Though, I feel like we kind of got a half lesson here.  We're not perfect and we have our faults and foibles.  However, we should be working on improving them.  After so many episodes that felt like they could have been 11-minutes, this one could have stood to be a two parts.  This would be part one and part two would maybe be the six reading the journal again and realizing there are places they could stand to improve.  Do what the foals did, cut through the unhelpful and unneeded criticism to find ways to actually improve their lives.  Twilight Sparkle can't go back to being a unicorn, but putting in more of an effort to live up to her title would be an endeavor for her character to undertake.  Fluttershy is already more confident and could stand to learn how to compromise without making it seem like caving in.  They all have things they could work on as do all of us.  It would be a good lesson to children who might feel like everyone is telling them what to do just to tell them what to do.

I just feel like the tone of the episode was too dismissive and more of a backlash against the audience than a productive response.  Having had one of the writers literally hand wave me pointing out a major character breakage in person, the attitude of this episode rubbed me the wrong way.  Though, I do feel a pox on both the houses.  There are far too many people out there who don't articulate a useful criticism and instead just vomit an emotional response.  They're not helping either side.
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Offline Zapper

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Re: S7 EP14: Fame and Misfortune (THE GLORIOUS RETURN OF LARSON!!!)
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2017, 07:55:04 PM »
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By the way, I wonder if that's a real reflection of kids watching FiM. Are kids actually learning how to be friends through the show, or are they just in it for the entertainment?

Why not both? Media does influence people big and small. Kids don't have the fandom baggage, they can enjoy the show in their own way.
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Offline Majesty

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Re: S7 EP14: Fame and Misfortune (THE GLORIOUS RETURN OF LARSON!!!)
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2017, 09:52:58 PM »
My first thought was why was their friendship lessons journal looking like it was about 5 or 10 years old like they did it when they were kids.  I'm not sure how long it's been ponyville timewise but I don't think it was long enough for it basically to be moldy looking and gross.  Also, I'm surprised it was in that kind of condition considering that Twilight seems to value all her books and seems to take care of them.

Second, Twilight saying she never intended for the journal to go on the market was confusing to me since she put it in bookstores around equestria to be sold.  I realize that her true intention was for people to read it and learn lessons of friendship but she should have just given them away to people if that was the case.

Third, I liked seeing the G3 characters it was nice.

Fourth, as others have mentioned they didn't actually resolve the screaming mob outside the castle and her random song instead of a speech was just weird for me.

I kind of feel like Starlight is a third wheel at this point.  I realize she's Twilight's friend but that castle was meant for the mane 6 to have meetings and stuff and it's Twilight's new home.  I assumed the point of her being there was so Twilight could take her on as her student and teach her friendship lessons but since she's done all she can with her she should move on.
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Offline Tulips

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Re: S7 EP14: Fame and Misfortune (THE GLORIOUS RETURN OF LARSON!!!)
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2017, 10:55:22 PM »
Well I enjoyed that episode, I don't read too deep into them so I can't really join the discussion but it's the first one in a while that was more enjoyable than boring for the majority. I liked the jokes, I was genuinely laughing at points, and I love that the animators have been so creative with expressions in recent seasons because Rarity's scene (you know the one) was priceless.
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Offline Al-1701

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Re: S7 EP14: Fame and Misfortune (THE GLORIOUS RETURN OF LARSON!!!)
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2017, 10:59:19 PM »
Stress sewing.  Well, it's not quite as dangerous as Tony Stark's stress building from Iron Man 3.
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Offline Tulips

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Re: S7 EP14: Fame and Misfortune (THE GLORIOUS RETURN OF LARSON!!!)
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2017, 11:15:44 PM »
I made a gif :P
I'm sick and on strict bed rest today, but maybe I'll sneak to my computer and crop her head out to make a hilarious emoji.  :biggrin:

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Re: S7 EP14: Fame and Misfortune (THE GLORIOUS RETURN OF LARSON!!!)
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2017, 11:29:20 PM »
It wa only a matter of time before she snapped. :P
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Offline Al-1701

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Re: S7 EP14: Fame and Misfortune (THE GLORIOUS RETURN OF LARSON!!!)
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2017, 11:42:57 PM »
Come to think it, considering how many times she turns on the waterworks, you would think Rarity would have invested in waterproof makeup.  Those stains have to be a pain to get out of a white coat.
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Re: S7 EP14: Fame and Misfortune (THE GLORIOUS RETURN OF LARSON!!!)
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2017, 12:11:16 AM »
Watching it now, going to make comments as I go...

Toola Roola!! Glad to see her again. Also, 100% relate to the colt who just ate up that sundae with no question.

The fact that ponies came from all over Equestria to get autographs makes me feel less "mary sue-ish" about my ponysona writing a letter to Twilight

"YOU'VE KNOWN ME FOR YEARS!!!" Okay it's rare I get a laugh from Pinkie but that was good

A+ standing up for yourself Flutters

Psycho Rarity made me uncomfortable  :nope:

Uhhhh it's not cider season. Also ponies trying to become "family" is very creepy yikes

"Stress Couture" is the definition of my sense of fashion thank you Rarity

All the ponies being snippy and treating the mane six like they're not real... oh god the meta. The meta is so strong. "Twilight shouldn't have gotten wings" I DIED.

This was a good song and a good message. And a good time considering the forum drama! Summed up well how I feel about analytical bronies.

This was a good one! I'm not a Larson worshipper, but it's easy to see how he helped in this. I very much appreciate the meta
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Offline CloudyGlow

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Re: S7 EP14: Fame and Misfortune (THE GLORIOUS RETURN OF LARSON!!!)
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2017, 12:26:19 AM »
This episode was really funny and I love the song.
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Offline Dragonflitter

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Re: S7 EP14: Fame and Misfortune (THE GLORIOUS RETURN OF LARSON!!!)
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2017, 01:42:53 AM »
I didn't like all the choices in this episode but I did enjoy it overall.

The meta stuff kinda left the realm of funny and drifted into the realm of cringe-worthy, to me. There's a reason authors are often advised to not respond to online criticisms of their books. It's because it makes you seem kinda insecure and whiny when you try to defend your words and not just let your work stand for itself. For me it felt like the episode came off as the show's writers being whiny and trying to defend themselves against the fandom. This isn't the first time they've done that, there's been poking fun of the fandom before, but this time was definitely the most blatant.

I did kinda have to laugh at myself when it got to the scene with ponies complaining about Fluttershy having to learn her lessons over and over again, and Fluttershy defending herself by saying it takes more than one incident to permanently change yourself. I've been guilty of complaining about her episodes a lot, so it felt like she was speaking directly to me.  :blush:

Some of the lines in this ep are just golden. I too loved Pinkie's "YOU'VE KNOWN ME FOR YEARS!" XD That was hilarious. I love the reporter who says Twilight's "character" would have been more interesting if she stayed in Canterlot, to which she retorts that this is non-fiction and it all really happened, duh! (Here's where the meta analogy kinda falls through, though, since that's not quite a retort you could make to a person complaining about the choices the script writers made.)

Omg yay for G3 cameos! Extended cameos, even! It was so adorable, and they didn't make it obvious by saying something weird like the two foals were visitors from some backwater town in the corner of Equestria, or something like that. They were actually treated as real characters. Maybe we'll get more blind bags or brushables of them!

Loved the song, but not just that, I loved the animation of the song! There's been so many times in the past the animation department took a break and just reused the same animation multiple times, especially for choruses or similar stanzas. But this time the animation was cool and unique, and even when they reused similar poses they switched it up a little (like using two of the Mane 6 each time for the chorus). I loved that in the chorus each pony did something unique that showed their character. Like Twilight holding a book and Pinkie Pie making a funny face.

The moral of the episode is kinda interesting. This is not the first time a cartoon has done the lesson of "being famous isn't all its cracked up to be." I found this ending to be kinda unique in that they tried to come at it with a realistic angle instead of a cartoon angle. In most cartoons, when the characters learn how fame turns out to be terrible, they usually give up and go back to the way things were, or the fame turns out to be like a magic wish that they can retract, or it was just a dream, or something weird like that. Almost like the lesson of the cartoon is "don't even try to be famous because it's horrible, just be happy with what you have."

But they didn't do that here. Once the girls published the book and they were famous, there was no retracting it. There was no easy way to deal with the issue and have a moral all wrapped up in a neat little package in 22 minutes. Instead the best that the writers could do, in a realistic way, was just to say "Look sometimes people are just going to be jerks and you can't do anything about it. Being with your friends makes it bearable when other people treat you like crud."

In fact, that's often a complaint some adult viewers have for the show, isn't it? That the Mane 6 always make their enemies into their friends and how everything is just a big friendship lesson, and the show isn't realistic in how it portrays how real people will treat you in real life. So here we have the opposite of that. Here we have an ending where Twilight didn't magic up the perfect speech to change everybody's minds and befriend everyone. No matter what she said or did, she couldn't just make all the complainers happy. So instead she went inside, to be with her friends, and left the complainers on her lawn.

Not a perfect neat little wrap up ending, no. A surprising mature ending, though rushed and somewhat frustrating because they couldn't produce any concrete answers for us other than ignore what you can't do anything about, i.e. "live and let live."

( Also was it just me or was there a lot of hugging in this episode?  :blink: I mean the ponies are always very friendly with each other, I know that, but it was like everyone was hugging everyone this ep. Especially in the song and at the end. So much hugging. )
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Re: S7 EP14: Fame and Misfortune (THE GLORIOUS RETURN OF LARSON!!!)
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2017, 02:17:14 AM »
Well, I finally managed to sit down and watch this. It definitely isn't going to be one of my favourites, and I thought it was a half-butted lesson. But it was very funny to see the writers persective on the fandom. We often only hear of the fandoms perspective, not the little ones watching or the staff. It was interesting to see this sort of idea. And I died at the mention of how twilight shouldn't have gotten wings! Overall, this wasn't a half bad episode. We could have gotten much worse, right? And I know the lesson was halfway there, and below par, but it was still a lesson. Nobody has to be perfect. In this day and age of social media and kids exposed at a younger age, they are going to want to be like those perfect celebrities. The lesson that everybody has flaws and mistakes, and those are what make part of who we are is a rather valuable lesson in my opinion. But that being said, I know the writers aren't perfect either, and Larson most definitely isn't perfect, but they could have probably made a better episode.
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Offline lostpony

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Re: S7 EP14: Fame and Misfortune (THE GLORIOUS RETURN OF LARSON!!!)
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2017, 06:02:03 AM »
Well, that just happened.


Things I liked:
-"mint in package" unread book.  Dead-on (and poor Twily!).
-unresolved problem at the end.  That's new, and I like it.  Realistic, and not trite.
-all the fan quips retorted to:  fluttershy's repeated lessons and her perceptive answer, Rarity as worst pony drama queen, Pinky as a shallow joke only.  Most of all "Twilight was better before she had wings" because that one, I say...  Although, I did really like Twilight here...it's not often she has no solution but stays cool and collected anyway.  She really kept it together this time.
-Starlight stepping up.  She was the one who saw what needed to be done:  not resolve the problem, but show that some good came of Twily's backfired idea.  And that was enough.  There's no telling what might have happened if she hadn't known the right thing to do.

What I didn't like:  I can't put my finger on it.  Something is definitely amiss and I just can't quite place it.  It's like this was less of a real episode and more a debate response to the various ongoing complaints we've voiced about the show.  I feel like Pony has lost some of its innocence by confronting the issues rather than pretending they don't exist, and I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.  At any rate it's thought-provoking, and I for one don't particularly care so much for thinking.

If anything, this episode does have a solid lesson for those who create art of any kind.  You have to somehow isolate yourself from criticism, and cherish those hearts your work touches.  Just because Starlight doesn't bring you a Toola Roola to tell you so, you still have to believe that somewhere out there, at least one person is moved by what you have done, and that has to be enough to sustain you.

Offline Zapper

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Re: S7 EP14: Fame and Misfortune (THE GLORIOUS RETURN OF LARSON!!!)
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2017, 08:24:12 AM »
Watched it again and I saw that one of Twilight's friends from Canterlot (Lemon something)
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Offline MJNSEIFER

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Re: S7 EP14: Fame and Misfortune (THE GLORIOUS RETURN OF LARSON!!!)
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2017, 09:00:47 PM »
I haven't watched the episode yet (though I have seen the "Psycho Face Rarity" scene, and am not impressed), but reading from the comments - I feel like this episode had a nice idea, but may have executed it badly, but I'll have to watch the episode to be sure.

It feels like they've glanced at the fandom, and focused on the complaints and responded to them, but I need to access whether the response is literally "You're complaints don't even make sense!" or if they are complaints that they feel are things that need to be addressed.

The thing that stands out the most is that they have responded to the complaint that all of Fluttershy's episodes are about her shyness, but that's the thing, they're not.  "Putting Your Hoof Down" and "Filli Vanilli" are the only episodes that spring to mind about her shyness being a key part in the episode (there was a recent episode, that I think dealt with it as well), so I don't know why the episode would act like the complaint is true, if that's what they were doing.

It seems to have taken a stand at how Rarity is unfairly hated by some bronies, which is a good thing to respond to, but if they had to resort to those stupid faces again, they are doing it wrong, in my opinion.

I'm sure a lot of us have thought about doing an episode responding to the hate of characters we like - I've thought of it, my writing partner has actually written this episode at least thrice, so it's not unheard of to want to do this to protect/defend a character, but it works better if you do it sensitively; show the sadness of the character, not give them a insane face (especially when you're dealing with a fandom that takes a pony playing with inanimate objects as toys while depressed to be a sign of insanity).

Or maybe they did it better, and I'm judging it on one scene - I'll have to watch the episode.
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