G4 pretzel

[Gator]

I saw a g4 Pretzel yesterday.  I never got into collecting g4's because I want more g1 characters other than Applejack brought back into the spotlight (I know they brought back Moondancer, but I didn't like how grumpy and ugly they made her character on the show).  And I know we have discussed name rights Hasbro may have lost or still have here in the arena, but it makes me upset they make a character named Twist, and a toy named Pretzel, when they could have just added a g4 version of Twist to the show.  Like when on FIM Twilight Sparkle calls a male pony Lickety Split.  Why not just let the real Lickety Split join the show? 
Sorry, just venting.  I wish Hasbro took care of their pony collectors the same way they do with their Transformers collectors with the Generations line.
Oh, one more vent: if auto-correct changes Lickety to Pickett one more time...

[Leave a Whisper]

Same here. But they are not likely too for the most part. It doesn't mean they never toss us a bone. Cuz they do. And besides the G2 crowd has it worse. Their ponies are so ignored by hasbro because g1 fans from what I heard, threw a truly spectacular tantrum.

Anyways kids are Hasbro's favored child when it comes to MLP, the collectors and bronies are just extra cash in their bank account.

Transformers fans have no idea how spoiled by hasbro they truly are. Or maybe they do? I'm not sure.

The Joe fans are getting closer to  being on the verge of forgotten and the Jem fans are like that long lost kid that came back, was given money and will be getting booted back out as quickly as possible.

Besides, talented types can always customize Twist and impo, she doesn't seem right if she's not a so-soft. Same as a rebooted Fizzy not being a twinkle eye, or a rebooted Diamond Dreams not being a merry go round.

[LadyMoondancer]

Ah yes, the classic G1 character Picketty-Split. 

MLP definitely has more separation between generations than Transformers.  But MLP also has a new setting with each generation, while Transformers rehashes the civil war between the Decepticons and the Autobots with every new series, which can get a little boring and predictable if you're an older fan.  Some series have literally NO new characters at all, or next to none.  It's like "Oh gee . . . another version of Bumblebee . . . Yep . . . Wow.  Aaaand they just made up an excuse to recolor him so they could make a recolored toy."  So be careful what you wish for, I guess, lol. Honestly, my favorite Transformer from "Transformers Prime" was Knock Out, a totally new character not based on anyone else.

G4 actually has more references to previous generations than any other gen, in that they transplanted at least three main characters from other gens (G1 Applejack, G3 Rainbow Dash, and G3 Pinkie Pie.  Also Twilight Sparkle is based on G3 Twilight Twinkle.)  Is that a good thing or a bad thing?  To me it's neutral, I guess.  I do think a lot of G1 ponies had great designs, so in that sense yeah, I'd like to see them.  But if Hasbro makes new G4 characters with good designs (like Trixie and Lyra and Seaswirl, I love all three of them), then I am cool with that too.

[Taffeta]

The way I feel about this now is that if Hasbro had begun G4 with the old ponies reinvented, I would have been  happy. But then I would have seen the episodes, and if the eps were the same characterisations as they are for the mane six, then I would be less happy. In short, I wouldn't want the G4 characters imposed on the appearances of G1 (which is sort of what you said about Moondancer).

I don't like that Rainbow Dash and Pinkie Pie stayed on from gen 3, because if G1 ponies can't, G3 ones definitely shouldn't, and I am very sick of Pinkie Pie over and over by now after so many years of her in various forms! But that's a minor twitch of mine.

I actually like the idea that G4 has its own ponies, characters, personalities. If it wasn't going to start with G1 images and personalities, it is better off doing its own thing. I like Pretzel as she is, I adore Twist and always will. I don't see them as the same pony or even related. It would be like saying Cherry Treats should look exactly like Cherries Jubilee because they both have a cherry theme. At least to me.

I don't like the animation for G4 that much, so I don't know how many of the new characters are or are not in it, but I like that with the pearlies, Hasbro really produced different ponies from the mane 6. I think we should be encouraging them to do this, even if they aren't the G1 ponies.

Although I would love them to do a one off collector set of the ponies as they were originally imagined in G4 form (Surprise, Sparkler, etc). If they couldn't licence the names, they could just do the set without naming them, as some kind of "MLP anniversary" set. But that aside, I'm more ok with G4 having its own ponies with their own characters than the new G4 characters being imposed on G1 appearances.

[Al-1701]

At least G1 MLP was not as set in stone in terms of its plot.  It was more about exploring (and most often defending themselves from) the unknown.  They have no real designated enemies and only a few such allies.  Which means they could do anything, and any revival would still have a vast amount of creative freedom while still being faithful to the original (like actually give them a proper origin story).

I'm with Taffeta.  If they weren't going to revive G1, leave G4 as its own thing (as well as Pinkie Pie just needs to go away).  I'm actually afraid after FiM's success following generations will just rehash it over and over again.

[Gator]

LadyMoondancer, I loved the addition of KnockOut!  I like all the brainy, sciency type bots like Grapple, Ratchet, Shockwave, Wheeljack, etc.  I liked having a new wicked scientist.  I liked the addition of Animated's Bulkhead and Lugnut too.  I like the FIM series, it's just the addition of Apple Jack had me hoping that, in time, maybe I'd see some more old childhood friends return to the screen.  I love Discord.  He's Ponyville's own "Q". 

[Motion-Paradox]

Oh! I can explain the bit about Applejack & Spike; originally the plan had been to bring back several G1 Ponies as the main characters: Applejack, Posey, Twilight, Sparkler, Surprise & Firefly, along with Spike. However it had been such a long time since those characters had been released that Hasbro had lost the copyright to most of those names (and I believe some had already been bought by other people), except Applejack & Spike since their names had been used in G3 which renewed the copyright so their designs were mostly unchanged, while the other characters were either given names from G3 that suited their personality, even if the character they shared their name with was completely different (Sparkler to Rarity but mostly using Glory's colour scheme and retaining Sparkler's cutie mark, Firefly to Rainbow Dash since it can sound sporty, Surprise to Pinkie Pie since one of her traits was going to be throwing surprise parties) and some were given mostly new names & designs that were influenced by G3 ponies to create something that both fit who the characters were intended to be and was something distinct enough to be copyrighted (G1 Twilight + G3 Twilight Twinkle = G4 Twilight Sparkle, G1 Posey + G3 Fluttershy= G4 Fluttershy). Simply put, it wasn't any sort of ill-will to the first generation or favouring the third, the copyrights just expired and what they did seemed a good idea at the time.

If you do a search you can find the original concept art but you can find a chart somebody made here: http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/mlpfanart/images/d/d1/History_concept.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20111008150105

And this is what it originally would have looked like

Spoiler

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My guess is that when they have a Pony from a previous generation appear in the show they don't actually have the rights to the name, at least not enough to use for merchandise, but since it's show-only they can sort of get away with it as long as they find a new name for any merchandise they make (Hence why G4 Twist is Twist-a-loo in the merchandise). I'm not sure why some end up keeping most of the traits of their original counterpart (Moon Dancer being very similar, apart from how unkempt she had become) while others have almost no traits of their namesakes (Lickety Split, Cherries Jubilee & Twist), but my guess is they had planned the episodes out first and named the characters as a nod to the previous generations regardless of how they looked (The best analogy I can think of is it's like googling your own name and finding somebody else who has a completely different appearance and a career you never would have considered) or they deliberately made them different looking because they had the same issue as with the Mane 6, though with Twist they may just not have known there was a G1 Pony with that name since she wasn't one of the poster ponies of the first generation.

As for some of the other issues, I have to admit I never collected the 3rd generation so I didn't have the years of exposure, but I'm not sure it's quite fair to stick G4 Pinkie with the frustrations caused by G3 Pinkie since they aren't the exact same character, especially since most generations had a core group of characters that were given several re-releases (G2 Didn't last long enough in North America for this to happen, but in Europe a few of the earlier characters received several releases). Though really I think the big issue is that Hasbro has done a lot of experimenting with My Little Pony over the generations and has ended up in a situation where they now have a broad spectrum of tastes to cater to and need multiple lines to cover everyone. Even in the case of people who feel a certain way about a trait of the franchise it won't necessarily be for the same reason: some people dislike the fact that we currently have a core cast of characters because they feel pressured to collect every version of those characters, while others dislike it because they attribute the presence of a core cast to a lack of variety in other releases (I'm not sure either way, since European G2 seemed to have a good balance and I have no idea about G3), some actually like having this arrangement because having fewer non-mane characters makes it easier to collect one of each, while others are more fans of the show(s) than toyline(s) and don't have strong opinions either way, they're simply glad a release of their favourite character is always available no matter when you start watching the show.

[banditpony]

I feel like it's better that they don't bring back old characters with personalities. Too many people would grumble that it wasn't how they would want it to be.

However, I wish they'd sort of put more G1 ponies in the background, kind of like little easter eggs.

[Motion-Paradox]

I feel like it's better that they don't bring back old characters with personalities. Too many people would grumble that it wasn't how they would want it to be.

However, I wish they'd sort of put more G1 ponies in the background, kind of like little easter eggs.

I recommend the comics for that, especially the ones done by Amy Mebberson, I know the Princess Celestia Micro series issue & the Bookworm arc had several (along with other cameos, she has an entire set of Sailor Moon Ponies too)

[banditpony]

I feel like it's better that they don't bring back old characters with personalities. Too many people would grumble that it wasn't how they would want it to be.

However, I wish they'd sort of put more G1 ponies in the background, kind of like little easter eggs.

I recommend the comics for that, especially the ones done by Amy Mebberson, I know the Princess Celestia Micro series issue & the Bookworm arc had several (along with other cameos, she has an entire set of Sailor Moon Ponies too)

Yep that's what I wish the TV show would do.

[Al-1701]

I'm sick of people repeating the "lost the rights" lie.  Hasbro did not lose the rights to the names.  Copyrights are essentially immortal.  The trademarks have lapsed, but they could have been renewed if Hasbro so wished.  However, Hasbro did not so wish.

By the time Hasbro asked Faust to come on board for the show (and ONLY the show), they had a pretty good idea that they wanted to start off by repeating ponies from G3.  In fact, they wanted the Core7 ponies to be carried over as main characters and it was all Faust could do to convince them that Cheerilee would be best served as a B character.

That is why Faust couldn't use her original choices.  The plans of the generation were already too far along.

[Taffeta]

As for some of the other issues, I have to admit I never collected the 3rd generation so I didn't have the years of exposure, but I'm not sure it's quite fair to stick G4 Pinkie with the frustrations caused by G3 Pinkie since they aren't the exact same character, especially since most generations had a core group of characters that were given several re-releases (G2 Didn't last long enough in North America for this to happen, but in Europe a few of the earlier characters received several releases).

Core group actually began with G1, with the Seven Characters, but only in Europe and Oceania, even though North America had the MLP Tales episodes. G1 didn't endure long enough for this to really take effect, but the comics and show were already centered entirely around those characters, and they had begun making rerelease versions - for example, Nurse Sweetheart, Hairdo Starlight, Rollerskates Melody - as well as keeping the Seven Characters in release albeit with stickers not combs and ribbons in the final year. So Hasbro began it then. Not with G2. With G1.

I am pretty sure that G2 in the States also had a few rereleases before the line got dropped. Far more in Europe, obviously. The UK were kind of in the middle - we didn't get all the ponies that the continent did, but we did get more than North America did. I have a strong feeling that Ivy, Lightheart etc did get more than one release over there before the line died.

Generation 3 became really repetitive, but I don't think that it always felt that way. It just became so industriously structured around the core ponies. But my annoyance at Dash and Pinkie's endurance into G4 just seemed like Hasbro saving money or not bothering to come up with new licences and identities because they already had some they'd been hashing to death for years.

It is actually G4 that made Pinkie Pie obnoxious to me. She had a lot releases in G3 but I don't remember her character being annoying or irritating in any regard. In short, if you wanted to ignore her, you could. She was overly pink, but that was about it. Now she's a very in-your-face part of the G4 franchise. To me the series tries to make Pinkie funny, but it's generally forced humour and mostly slapstick and silly. I get that it's for kids, but it just makes me relieved that she's not Surprise. Because that would really irk me.

I genuinely want Hasbro to move away from the mane 6 and make other characters and leave the mane 6 to maybe once every couple of years...but that won't happen. I'm not one of the people who always expect another generation to come for MLP after this one ends, but I suspect this core group idea won't be going away, as it's been there in Hasbro's thoughts since the early 1990s and there's no telling whether some of the fond favourites from G4 now will be rehashed into something obnoxious if that did happen, at which point I am sure there'd be an outcry from G4 fans about characters being "ruined" in the new line.

As a G1 person, I am ultimately glad Hasbro didn't ruin G1 in creating G4. G4 can be what it is, and G1 can stay as it was, and it's all fine. And Pinkie Pie is better off being obnoxious as Pinkie Pie than Surprise, though I won't pretend I would not like G4 more if she didn't exist in it at all.

[Al-1701]

Having a core group can be a boon in some ways.  It can provide an anchor to the line for new audiences.  However, G3 (at least to start) understood that had to be in compliment to new release to keep the line from getting stale with the customers they already had.  The fact G4 almost immediately collapsed onto almost nothing but the Mane 6 and princesses is the problem.

And the show's characterization (and especially the fan characterization of them which is seeping more and more into the show) has been rather obnoxious.  I can't stand Rainbow Dash and can only take Pinkie Pie in limited doses.

I don't even want to think of what they would have done with Wind Whistler and Fizzy if they had used them given the trend of taking their most stereotypical trait and cranking it to 11 because volume apparently means depth.  Fizzy's sweet naivete would have been twisted into unreasonable obliviousness and Wind Whistler would be robotic and spouting nonsensical technobabble.  Yeah, I could live without seeing that happen.

G1 is probably best left to G1.  If they do bring it back, I think they need people who better understand the high fantasy genre and that a character can be just as impactful with a whisper as screaming at the top of the lungs.  Which I doubt Hasbro would do since they don't seem to believe girls only care about slice of life.

[LadyMoondancer]

Basically Hasbro kept Pinkie Pie and Rainbow Dash around for G4 because they had already sunk so much time and effort and money (and rereleases) in making them the face of My Little Pony.

Sort of like the Pokemon franchise . . . Pikachu is ALWAYS going to be the flagship character and the one Pokemon that Ash brings with him from region to region in the anime.  Because even to people who don't really collect / watch / pay attention to the franchise, Pikachu is recognizable as the face of Pokemon. Hasbro wants MLP to have its own "Pikachu".

I find G4 Pinkie Pie annoying at times (okay, a lot of the time), but not nearly as annoying as G3 Pinkie Pie.  The way the other ponies treated her like she was perfect and how she was "everyone's best friend" really irked me.  G4 Pinkie Pie at least is not taken seriously by other ponies and her need to be everyone's best friend is often treated as almost a neurosis.  I also flat out hated G3 Pinkie Pie's voice.  (Nothing personal against her VA, who I'm sure is a great person.)

[Al-1701]

Don't get me started on that yellow rat and its being the face of Pokemon has hamstrung every aspect of the brand.

Which actually goes into why I don't like Pinkie Pie and Rainbow Dash being the faces of MLP.  Pinkie is not just pink, but an unappealing shade of pink (probably not helped by the fact they don't know what saturation control is).  A pony shouldn't make me think of something I go for when I have stomach problems.  Even if they insist on using that particular hue, they could lighten it few (or several) shades to at least make her more pleasantly pastel.

And Rainbow Dash is just a case of personality assassination.  G3 Rainbow Dash started out entertaining with her overuse of "darling" and "rainbows" in an Eva Gabor impression.  Then she devolved into a vapid fashion pony.  Now she's a braindead jock whose episodes are among the most toxic of the series because of her supposed element and she is too stupid to learn something without being beaten over the head with it.