CP Sundance Catalogue Photo

[Taffeta]

Not to bring down the mood of the thread, and not to annoy the moderators, but I think I am justified in pointing out that if you borrow an image from someone's website, it's common courtesy to credit that source. I don't really like that the image of Butterscotch in the parlour, which is clearly watermarked from my site, has been reuploaded to photobucket and posted as if it's a random find as opposed to something put online in context. I don't mind people using my images and such, but I think its respectful to credit the source so that people don't have the image out of context.

I'm not interested in trying to prove Sundance doesn't exist. As far as I am concerned, I haven't seen her, and I don't comment on things I haven't seen. I am just fed up with the forced assumption she belongs in the UK line.

Basically what bothers me about this is that Argos took their own images of items. The Butterscotch one is a potential exception, but by 1985, when the similar Show Stable image appears, they are taking their own photos. The existence of a very similar photo to the Argos one raises flags and makes me wonder how and why. The matching Argos image is from Autumn/Winter 1985. Megan and Sundance came out in the UK in 1986 and 1987. We did not have Megan's Place here, and we had Home Sweet Home as the second Show Stable in 1990ish, with China Lemon Drop. If this image was taken at the same time as the Argos one, that suggests it was taken in summer 1985 at the latest, to go to print for Autumn.

But even if the people who took the Argos photos also took other photos for other stores, and this was a weird coincidence, the fact of the matter is that if this image got into a store catalogue, it must have been up for sale. And even if it was pulled at the last minute, it would have to appear in Hasbro brochures. And we have people in the community with the Hasbro brochures for all of the UK years, I believe. Someone would have flagged this up if it had happened in 1985. If it's not in Hasbro's books, it can't be in store catalogues. I am pretty sure that what happened was that Hasbro sent their brochure to stores, who chose what they'd stock and then got on with it. Argos were very pedantic about the things they stocked. They often had only one pony from certain sets (ie Bluebelle, Wind Whistler, Snowflake, Princess Sapphire). They DID have their own weird store exclusive releases, but again, they took the photos of those. Nothing from Hasbro. So that would imply an actual product that was there and was photographed. And that is a problem for me.

If we know from the other images that Argos are taking their own from actual stock, how do we get a pony that isn't in Hasbro's image catalogue for the UK into a UK store catalogue?

Bascially, the only answer is that if it's a store image, it comes from somewhere else. Somewhere we don't have catalogues for yet, and somewhere that happened to use the same photographer as Argos. But that's the missing factor in the equation.

[pinkkittywinks]

Thank you for posting Taffeta you have an awful lot of knowledge regarding the Argos catalogues and the European and U.K. release pattern.

I've spent some time looking at various catalogue images (both store and retail) and found that there are so many different catalogues! I'd forgotten how catalogues were the online shopping of the day in the 80s and most things were bought via a catalogue. Interestingly, the V&A have a selection of Hasbro and MB store and retail catalogues you can book to see 

Going back to context; the reason why I'm curious to find out just which catalogue the image is from would place Sundance in a context. This would allow us to have a better understanding of her and perhaps other things we don't fully understand in the world of ponies. Who knows what else might be in the catalogue!!

Out of interest; I've added a scan advert for the School Time Ponies from a German comic to the nirvana gallery along side painted Painting Time. Even though the ponies are clearly different, it's useful to see them side by side as it give insite into the design process.

Love pkw xxx

[kasin]

I'm not interested in trying to prove Sundance doesn't exist. As far as I am concerned, I haven't seen her, and I don't comment on things I haven't seen. I am just fed up with the forced assumption she belongs in the UK line.

The catalog photo of CP Sundance looks like it's from the same photo shoot as the photo that appears in the Argos catalog.  I think that is a fair  statement to make from observation. I don't think anyone is assuming or trying to force a assumption about Hasbros intent for the pony if she had a market release.

The show stable was one of the early releases in the European markets and even if Argos normally did things a particular way there is no way to know if they ever deviated from that protocol. They (hypothetically  ) may not have had the stable in hand in time for  their own photo shoot prior to publication and used a image provided by Hasbro or some other entity.  There are a myriad of other scenarios that could explain why this image matches the Argos image. It is possable that she was considered as a UK exclusive, why can't we say that?

As far as UK release of the shy pose Sundance, the character existed at the time of the Argos cataloge release in question, so it's irrelevant when, or that, she got a market release later.  Her CP  mold actually makes more sense in the context that she was considered for a earlier release arround the same time as the orginal 6, Peachy with parlor and 2 Euro CP variant bowtie and AJ. This is pure conjecture, but it all fits nicely together since  the CP mold was not popular for later years.

[SaveThePonies]

As a British person I have to say that Argos has always worked the same way. There are catalogues from the 70s that have the exact same format as the ones we have today.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2527105/Chopper-bikes-typewriters-home-gyms-Artists-vintage-Argos-catalogue-reveals-pages-changed-36-years.html

I know that Taffeta has put a LOT of research and time into the UK line of ponies (years of research) and she is the most knowledgeable person in the UK about MLP.

I have posted pictures of ALL the show stables in the 80's and 90's Argos catalogues to show that, while there are similarities between the Argos pictures and the image Ember1 has shown, they are different enough that I feel you cannot say they could be from the same photo shoot. Also Argos is not really the type of catalogue that has prototypes, they are often a season behind other retailers in their releases for sale. Another point about Argos catalogues is that they also put the My Little Pony logo on the pictures.

The only 2 releases of Megan and Sundance in the Argos catalogues were Spring/Summer '86 and Spring/Summer '87.
I don't understand why, when it has been proven that the photo can't have come from an Argos catalogue, people are still trying to draw that conclusion?