CP Sundance Catalogue Photo

[LadyMoondancer]

I think Ember1's Sundance is a real prototype.  I'm not sure if she the exact SAME prototype in the picture.  But in any case this proves that Hasbro toyed (heh) with the idea of having a CP Sundance.

Regarding the idea of it being a photo-edit--remember that in the 80s no one had Photoshop.  It would have taken a huge amount of time and money to photo-edit a picture like that.

To give an idea of how hard it was, here is an example I read on the blog of a guy who did toy design in the 70s.  So, he was commissioned to do a paper doll of the teen heart throb from "The Partridge Family" TV show.  They had the guy get down to boxers and undershirt and took a picture of him.  However . . .

The final photographs were a disaster.  No one had anticipated the inappropriateness of male body hair.  Photoshop hadn’t been invented, yet, to shave his legs digitally, and airbrushing would have been more expensive than taking the shot over again.  So Bill looked for another model willing to use Nair.

When that search proved unsuccessful he came up with a solution that has remained a secret till this day.  He posed the shot with a young girl instead.  A multitude of little girls, and David too, never knew they were dressing and undressing a prepubescent young lady with David Cassidy’s head. 

[SaveThePonies]

As promised scans from the Argos catalogues of all the show stable pics

Autumn 84/85
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Spring summer 85
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Autumn 85/86
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Spring summer 86
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Autumn 86/87
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Autumn 90/91
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[pinkkittywinks]

Thank you for sharing those amazing scans STP

Love pkw xxx

[tootie_tails]

But in any case this proves that Hasbro toyed (heh) with the idea of having a CP Sundance.

I agree with this part. The picture definitely speaks in favor of an existing sundance prototype.

It would have been good if we could find a bigger version though. I know if it had been me who found the tiny picture online I would be all over it. I would have tried to contact the person who posted it and asked politely if they know anything about it, if they have the source, if they would be willing to scan it and so on. But the people who found it don't seem to be interested in doing that, and I'm not sure why as a better quality picture could be in favor of ember's pony.

I don't think anyone wants ember's pony to be fake, everyone wants the pony to be genuine. Everyone will be happy if/when it has been confirmed. It's just the rush to make a verdict that isn't good.

There have been so many ponies where it took a long time before we knew what they were. There was a picture of a pegasus (venezuela Medley? I think) that was floating around for years. It was exciting to hear peoples thoughts about it back then.
I also remember when the piggy ponies surfaced. I was one of the people who believed they were real from the start. Then there were some people who refused to believe they were real, even when several mocs had been found and people found information about the production and such. So they were definitely debated. But I don't remember anyone trying to pick a fight over it or bullying someone because they had a different opinion.
The people who didn't think the piggies were real, I'm guessing they changed their mind eventually. And if they didn't, that's their problem. It isn't something to pick a fight over.
 
Reading the comments about uk catalogs here I realized I have one of those too. I don't remember seeing anything extraordinary like this when I bought it, but I will get it out of storage and have a look just in case.

[Ember1]

Tootietails.

There has been no rush to confirm sundance. It has been over two years in the making. From my perpective and involvement, I am going to put this to rest now. There is nothing left to confirm. There is catalogue evidence and it certainly looks like the exact same pony in the catalogue. She is factory weaved and shes been inspected and confirmed by a few oldbie collectors.

Thats pretty much as far as this case can be explored and shes completely confirmed in my viewpoint. If you dont feel that way its fine but the rest of the collectors that do feel this way are going to continue to enjoy this new discovery and celebrate her like the other prototypes that exist in the community. Its amazing any of them have survived at all.

FYI
The member that posted the picture has not been active in quite a while so things are stagnant on that end but additional information doesn't serve to further confirm her in my belief.. She is confirmed now in my seasoned opinion.

[Ponyland]

I'm very happy that Ember1 continued to actively searching for this pic after she found the prototype, 2 years ago! It was such a great job finding the pic Ember1, and so great of you to share it with the community!

And now we can all help out to continue to look for the origin of the catalogue, because that is fun! And I'm only here for the fun part.


Edited to ad:

Great job SaveThePonies!! And it was fun looking on the scan's! I have a soft spot for advertising... ^_^

[Strandperle]

I still wonder how she ended up in German ebay I remember seeing the auction back then.

[kasin]

It looks like both Ember and Tootie are feeling bullied.

I don't think anyone has a problem with different people having different opinions, I think the issue is that it feels like this pony is getting more scrutiny than others. For example, it's been rejected for the nirvana gallery pending proof it's real, yet other ponies that could be disputed are included like white windy who many collectors are not convinced of yet.

Maybe we need some kind of minimum standards for the community to list a pony as a accepted variant. It wouldn't mean every collector needs to agree it's legitimate, but it could help avoid the current situation.

[shelvesofwhimsy]

But in any case this proves that Hasbro toyed (heh) with the idea of having a CP Sundance.

I agree with this part. The picture definitely speaks in favor of an existing sundance prototype.

It would have been good if we could find a bigger version though. I know if it had been me who found the tiny picture online I would be all over it. I would have tried to contact the person who posted it and asked politely if they know anything about it, if they have the source, if they would be willing to scan it and so on. But the people who found it don't seem to be interested in doing that, and I'm not sure why as a better quality picture could be in favor of ember's pony.

I don't think anyone wants ember's pony to be fake, everyone wants the pony to be genuine. Everyone will be happy if/when it has been confirmed. It's just the rush to make a verdict that isn't good.

There have been so many ponies where it took a long time before we knew what they were. There was a picture of a pegasus (venezuela Medley? I think) that was floating around for years. It was exciting to hear peoples thoughts about it back then.
I also remember when the piggy ponies surfaced. I was one of the people who believed they were real from the start. Then there were some people who refused to believe they were real, even when several mocs had been found and people found information about the production and such. So they were definitely debated. But I don't remember anyone trying to pick a fight over it or bullying someone because they had a different opinion.
The people who didn't think the piggies were real, I'm guessing they changed their mind eventually. And if they didn't, that's their problem. It isn't something to pick a fight over.
 
Reading the comments about uk catalogs here I realized I have one of those too. I don't remember seeing anything extraordinary like this when I bought it, but I will get it out of storage and have a look just in case.

I think seeing Ember's CP Sundance next to the photo is a dead ringer for me! Whether or not she is the exact pony in the picture, I'm sure that they had hand painted protos they used for the shot, and it could easily be this one.

And as for the photo resolution, even if we did find a high quality scan, if the printing itself is a low resolution image it won't really help to prove too much. For instance: I was super interested in an unreleased LPS set from the 90s. I was finally able to get my hands on a backcard and scanned it around 300dpi. The results were still disappointing. The figures I wanted to blow up were still just as blurry and appeared to be made of 100s of tiny dots (similar to pixels). So I wasn't able to achieve the close up accuracy I wanted.

So even if we do someday find a better image it might not help solve any more riddles. I think the evidence is pretty heavily weighted in CP Sundance's favor! But either way its so exciting seeing these new ponies, and hopefully this won't discourage you too much Ember!

[angelponies]

It looks like both Ember and Tootie are feeling bullied.

I don't think anyone has a problem with different people having different opinions, I think the issue is that it feels like this pony is getting more scrutiny than others. For example, it's been rejected for the nirvana gallery pending proof it's real, yet other ponies that could be disputed are included like white windy who many collectors are not convinced of yet.

Maybe we need some kind of minimum standards for the community to list a pony as a accepted variant. It wouldn't mean every collector needs to agree it's legitimate, but it could help avoid the current situation.

I agree with this, In my humble opinion I think that Ember is hesitant about sharing any new ponies she has found, because of the scrutiny that she received on this particular pony =( and she has found some really awesome ones that I wish she'd share! I know that there is a BBE  Sunlight, a painted eye over variant SS Posey and a SS Gusty with alt eyes and painted on eyelashes that were received with open arms pretty quickly when no catalog evidence was ever found on them to my knowledge so I can see why she would feel backed into a corner on this particular pony, who now has catalog evidence to back her up. I think Sundance should go in the gallery, Just my thoughts on the matter.

[pinkkittywinks]

I'm putting an official warning on this thread since I have already asked once to keep this thread on topic.

The purpose of this thread was for Ember1 to share her pictures of CP Sundance and to discuss the image and it's possible source.

Love pkw xxx

[SaveThePonies]

I shared my scans - not to dispute the pony - but to show the Argos catalogue pics, while similar are not exactly the same

[tootie_tails]

 I think the issue is that it feels like this pony is getting more scrutiny than others. For example, it's been rejected for the nirvana gallery pending proof it's real, yet other ponies that could be disputed are included like white windy who many collectors are not convinced of yet.

That's interesting, I didn't know ember's pony had been rejected for the nirvana gallery.

I checked it out now and yes, the "white" Windy is in there, but she is listed as just that, "White" Windy with quotation marks like that. And with this information added:
"White or Cream Windy with blue symbols: these are faded due to loss of pigment in the plastic, rather than being a true variant."
So white Windy hasn't been accepted as a genuine variant either.

And now we can all help out to continue to look for the origin of the catalogue, because that is fun!

I agree.
I just checked my uk retailer catalog, but no luck. It's from 1989 so quite late in production. It has mostly ponies, a couple of playsets, but no Megan, Sundance or stable.

[Ember1]

Prototype cp sundance is now being accepted into the gallery so thats good news

Very few examples exist from this stage of prototype production so i believe thats why there was hesitation at first. But now with the catalogue evidence, the fact that shes factory weaved, and has been inspected by other oldtime collectors shes fully confirmed in my view. And pinkkittywinks has told me she will be added right next to her prototype sister paintingtime who has many similarities.

[pinkkittywinks]

 I think the issue is that it feels like this pony is getting more scrutiny than others. For example, it's been rejected for the nirvana gallery pending proof it's real, yet other ponies that could be disputed are included like white windy who many collectors are not convinced of yet.

That's interesting, I didn't know ember's pony had been rejected for the nirvana gallery.

Sundance had neither been accepted or rejected  this is because Ember1 hadn't donated a picture until now. CP Sundance is a tricky pony, but then again all ponies that fall into this category are very tricky.

The list of ponies missing in the Nirvana Gallery Donations thread is and has always been only a guideline. There are plenty of ponies missing off that list, either because we don't know about them or there are too many to list (I'm looking at you Colombian ponies)

The Nirvana Gallery is and always has been a living gallery. Things are constantly being moved, updated and changed as new ponies are found and new information is discovered.

I might moderate the nirvana forum and caretake the Nirvana Gallery, however admin decisions are always final and this also applies to the nirvana gallery.

 If anyone wishes to discuss this further please pm a moderator or admin

Now lets go back to the topic which is Ember1's CP Sundance and the catalogue scan

Love pkw xxx