Issue with eBay and buyer dispute. Help??

[Squirtsquirt]

It's been a while since I've sold on eBay, but I needed money so I sold an expensive LPS set last week.  Well, the drama hit the fan last night. I get a message from the buyer...

"I wasn't home on Saturday. But as soon as I did get here I looked all over for the package. It's not anywhere! I called post office and was told they left it on front porch. Well I never got it! Can you plz refund me! Thx, XXXXX"

Now, I have the delivery confirmation information so I know it was delivered.  My question now is what am I supposed to do??  I replied back that since it was delivered, a missing package would be an issue to take up with the post office.  I had the limited insurance on the package, it was shipped priority, so there is the $50 coverage on it.  BUT...is there anything else I can do?  I mean, I fulfilled my responsibilities as a seller, by shipping the item and providing proof of it being delivered.

I also have the issue with Paypal.  Because she opened a dispute, they have put a hold on funds.  Which of course are not there because I needed the money, so now my account is a negative balance. They do have the "seller protection" but reading through the site I don't see any information regarding how to process that or even continue with the claim.  It just shows the funds as on hold...

This is NOT what I needed right before Christmas... 

I have no idea if this chick is lying, and I have no intention of refunding her money.  We are talking almost $200 at this point.  As a seller, I shipped...I have no control if someone steals the package off the porch!  She could have gotten it, and is just hoping to get her money back.  I just need to know what else I can/should do to keep this mess to a minimum.

See why I prefer dealing here?  More trustworthy people and better communication.  I mean...she could've at least said something to me before jacking up my accounts. 

Any assistance would be helpful, from you guys that have been selling more recently than I have.   

[ClosetAvalanche]

If it was over $250, you need signature confirmation. If not, as long as it shows delivered, you are safe. If she already opened a dispute there is not much else you can do except to provide the tracking number that shows delivered. Good luck! Packages are being stolen a lot in the winter.

[kitkatvintage]

If the tracking shows delivered, eBay & PayPal should side with you. This is a fairly common scam eBay buyers try to pull these days. Stick to your guns. Inform the buyer that the tracking shows delivered and if it was in fact stolen off her porch, she will need to file a police report. Inform her that mail theft is considered a federal offense and insist she follow up with the local authorities. In some instances, when a dishonest buyer gets the message that you are familiar with the laws regarding mail theft, their package will magically be found, and they will drop the case.

On the flip side, mail theft is more common around the holidays so it is possible the buyer is being honest. Either way, this problem is between the buyer, her local post office, and the police.

Calling eBay to explain your situation may also help to move your case along quicker and release the hold on your account. Best of luck to you!!

Edit to add:
For what it's worth, I have had more problems selling Littlest Pet Shop on eBay than any other type of item. Multiple cases of "my kid bought this without my permission, please cancel the transaction", non-payers on auctions, and other hassles. Many collectors are kids or teens, rather than adults. My gut instinct is that your buyer bought something they really couldn't afford & they are trying to get you to refund it with this "missing package" story.

Call eBay & state your case. Don't let the buyer pressure you into a refund.

[Ponyfan]

I'm sorry this has happened to you. If I was expecting an expensive item to arrive in the mail I don't think I would have left town or I would ask a neighbor to watch for the package.

That being said packages do get stolen from houses sometimes. My mom sent a package of Rapunzel sheets to her sister for her great granddaughter and someone stole those from her sister's porch. They were just sheets but I guess someone really wanted them. But in that case the local post office talked to the carrier and he said he distinctly remembered putting them on the porch. 

Ponyfan

[Pokeyonekenobie]

If the tracking shows delivered, eBay & PayPal should side with you. This is a fairly common scam eBay buyers try to pull these days. Stick to your guns. Inform the buyer that the tracking shows delivered and if it was in fact stolen off her porch, she will need to file a police report. Inform her that mail theft is considered a federal offense and insist she follow up with the local authorities. In some instances, when a dishonest buyer gets the message that you are familiar with the laws regarding mail theft, their package will magically be found, and they will drop the case.

This. 
DO NOT refund them their money.  If you have delivery confirmation but they really never got it, then they need to call the police.  That isn't your problem to resolve.  Just be sure to let eBay and Paypal know that you did your part and the post office delivered it so that you're not blamed for the problem. 

[flying_narwhal]

If the tracking shows delivered, eBay & PayPal should side with you. This is a fairly common scam eBay buyers try to pull these days. Stick to your guns. Inform the buyer that the tracking shows delivered and if it was in fact stolen off her porch, she will need to file a police report. Inform her that mail theft is considered a federal offense and insist she follow up with the local authorities. In some instances, when a dishonest buyer gets the message that you are familiar with the laws regarding mail theft, their package will magically be found, and they will drop the case.

On the flip side, mail theft is more common around the holidays so it is possible the buyer is being honest. Either way, this problem is between the buyer, her local post office, and the police.

Calling eBay to explain your situation may also help to move your case along quicker and release the hold on your account. Best of luck to you!!

Edit to add:
For what it's worth, I have had more problems selling Littlest Pet Shop on eBay than any other type of item. Multiple cases of "my kid bought this without my permission, please cancel the transaction", non-payers on auctions, and other hassles. Many collectors are kids or teens, rather than adults. My gut instinct is that your buyer bought something they really couldn't afford & they are trying to get you to refund it with this "missing package" story.

Call eBay & state your case. Don't let the buyer pressure you into a refund.

This is the same advice I would have given. I have been in this situation a few times in the past. I also tell buyers to check with neighbors and family members who live in the house to see if it is possible that the package was mis-delivered or a family member brought it in and set it down without informing the buyer.

I second the advice about requesting the buyer file a police report for mail theft, as well as notifying the post office of the theft. No joke, in nearly all of the of instances I've had where the items showed delivered but buyer said they weren't, once I mentioned filing a police report they "magically" found their packages  If the package really was stolen then the police and post office need to know. As others have mentioned, the holiday season is prime time for mail theft.

No matter what your gut instinct is about the buyer, always remain professional and helpful in your messages. I know this can be difficult in situations like this, but it is in your best interest.

Since you have tracking that shows as delivered, you shouldn't have to refund as far as Paypal and eBay are concerned. Worse case scenario would be that she leaves negative feedback. But at least you won't lose all of that money.

If it was over $250, you need signature confirmation. If not, as long as it shows delivered, you are safe. If she already opened a dispute there is not much else you can do except to provide the tracking number that shows delivered. Good luck! Packages are being stolen a lot in the winter.

eBay has actually changed the signature confirmation requirement to orders of $750 or more.

[Taxel]

In the future you should make sure your packages are fully insured just in case anything happens. You don't want to end up eating the cost and loss of item if its damaged on the way or something.

[LadyMoondancer]

Insurance will cover instances where the PO loses or damages the package, but not in a case like this where it's mail theft.  (The PO says they delivered it.)

Squirtsquirt, calmly but firmly explain to the buyer that after the package is delivered, you are no longer responsible for it.  It is not your fault that someone stole it off her porch, and you bear no financial liability.

Provide the tracking number to eBay and Paypal.  They will side with you as long as the package shows as "delivered."

If the tracking shows delivered, eBay & PayPal should side with you. This is a fairly common scam eBay buyers try to pull these days. Stick to your guns. Inform the buyer that the tracking shows delivered and if it was in fact stolen off her porch, she will need to file a police report. Inform her that mail theft is considered a federal offense and insist she follow up with the local authorities. In some instances, when a dishonest buyer gets the message that you are familiar with the laws regarding mail theft, their package will magically be found, and they will drop the case.

On the flip side, mail theft is more common around the holidays so it is possible the buyer is being honest. Either way, this problem is between the buyer, her local post office, and the police.

This is great advice.

[Taffeta]

I agree with what is said above - give your tracking evidence and advise the buyer to take up the case with her local police, as if it's a valuable item that should be worth a case.

The thing that strikes me about these though is that parcels shouldn't be left on steps or in porches anyway. It happens here too, and sometimes without the signature it is meant to get, but it always boggles my mind that this happens with stuff. If you leave a box on the step you're asking for some random to come take it. I think there's definitely a case to be answered with the delivery people too if this was in fact left outside and not actually delivered to the location.

Here sometimes the postal office signs for a parcel then delivers it. I've had parcels recording they've been delivered at 4am before, which obviously is someone in the depot skipping their job and signing for a package before taking it to the house. That's also not something they should be doing, so also advise the buyer to chase it up with the delivery people (USPS or whoever).

They might be being dishonest, but definitely do not accuse them of it because you'll give yourself more hassle and them ammunition against you.

[Squirtsquirt]

Thanks for the replies...I was just a bit discouraged that there should be all this help in these cases, but neither eBay nor Paypal had any clear explanations on their sites.  It's kind of sad, really...because we know a lot of people will just refund automatically because they don't know they have some protection as sellers.

I haven't heard back from her since sending the message basically telling her that since it was delivered, it wasn't up to me anymore.  I did say to contact the post office, but that is a good idea to mention filing a police report as well if she does try to press it. 

I really don't want Paypal to try to pull money out of my account to cover the negative balance.   I don't have that money there, and I don't need overdraft fees because of all this stupidity.  Hopefully they'll just freeze the account...which is fine, since I have another paypal account.  I learned very early on to have two, just in case of something like this!  I can still have transactions, while dealing with this fiasco...very helpful here while I try to get a lot of my ponies new homes.

Thanks again for all the help. I feel better...

[Taxel]

Insurance will cover instances where the PO loses or damages the package, but not in a case like this where it's mail theft.  (The PO says they delivered it.)

I know, but its very important to cover yourself as a seller and get insurance. $50 of insurance on a $200 item is crazy low.

[LadyMoondancer]

The thing that strikes me about these though is that parcels shouldn't be left on steps or in porches anyway. It happens here too, and sometimes without the signature it is meant to get, but it always boggles my mind that this happens with stuff. If you leave a box on the step you're asking for some random to come take it. I think there's definitely a case to be answered with the delivery people too if this was in fact left outside and not actually delivered to the location.

In the US it's common for packages to be left by the mailbox or on the porch.   Oftentimes everyone in the house is at work when the mail carrier comes by. My postal carrier knocks when they leave a package, but I only hear them on Saturdays.  At the end of the day, the onus is on the buyer to request the PO to hold their packages (which the PO will do if asked) if they don't want to risk mail theft.  But most people would rather risk the mail theft in exchange for not having to travel to get their packages.  Especially the heavy ones.

[Taffeta]

In the US it's common for packages to be left by the mailbox or on the porch.   Oftentimes everyone in the house is at work when the mail carrier comes by.

Well, here too. But I think that it's still officially treason to interfere with/steal the mail in the UK. It certainly used to be when it was still just Royal Mail. Stuff does get left on the step here, or behind cars and such, but it's more common that it's left with a neighbour, or returned to the depot and you have to collect it from there. Some people have PO boxes but I think that's more common in the city. In London we have people at the desk to sign for everything so they keep it in their storeroom and that's useful, but the general rule here with Royal Mail is that if there is nobody home, it goes back to the post office or depot.

Maybe we're just less trusting. Although *touch wood* we've had some things left in odd places but never stolen yet.

[Pierlala]

Don't refund her. You did what you had to do. It is not your business anymore. You sent the package. It shows delivered. Nothing else should matter. I know how painful it is to have negative balance on your Paypal. But just provide them with the info you have and it should be alright. Sadly it might take a while. But atleast you got out your money beforehand.

I am so halpy that things like this don't happen in the Netherlands. Atleast not by Post NL. Leaving packages outside is just asking for trouble.