Discussion: Cures for pony cancer

[MangleCrafter]

I recently had a look at the ponies i separated from my collection due to pony cancer. I tried to fix some with a good hydrogen peroxide soak, but i wasn't so lucky with some ponies.. So i figured out another method that works well. I took a bait duplicate G1 Seashell, with pony cancer, and i cut out the infected area with an X-acto knife. I took some apoxie sculpt, and filled the gap where the pony cancer used to be. Once it was dry, i sanded it down with a fine grit sandpaper and painted it to match the ponies body. I have to say it worked pretty well, but i am still searching for a genuine method to removing it from the ponies body, and not cutting it out. Someday i hope we find some cleaning product that does the job. Any other ideas??

[Taxel]

I'm pretty sure you can't cure it. A lot of "cures" can make it worse, from what I've heard. Its not a disease or a stain. Its plastic breakdown or possibly some kind of mold (I vaguely remember someone doing legit scientific tests on it years ago).

[MangleCrafter]

I'm pretty sure you can't cure it. A lot of "cures" can make it worse, from what I've heard. Its not a disease or a stain. Its plastic breakdown or possibly some kind of mold (I vaguely remember someone doing legit scientific tests on it years ago).

Yes, that's correct, but I think it's a kind of bacteria, and i thought that there might be some kind of cleaning solution to remove it, who knows! But that's just me!

[Haruna]

I'm pretty sure you can't cure it. A lot of "cures" can make it worse, from what I've heard. Its not a disease or a stain. Its plastic breakdown or possibly some kind of mold (I vaguely remember someone doing legit scientific tests on it years ago).

Yes, that's correct, but I think it's a kind of bacteria, and i thought that there might be some kind of cleaning solution to remove it, who knows! But that's just me!

I'm not an expert, but I think pony cancer proper is plastic breakdown; it can look similar to the brown mold spots that some ponies get, though. I *think* you can tell the difference because pony cancer will just look like a brown area on the pony, while brown mold spots will often have a darker brown circle within a lighter brown circle. I hope that makes sense . . .  Again, I'm no expert, and some others here know a lot more about the definitions, causes, etc. Anyone who knows more, feel free to jump in!

[lovesbabysquirmy]

Pony cancer is NOT curable!  It is plastic breakdown - PVC is not meant to last for years and years.  Slicing up your ponies with exacto knives (!), sanding their bodies and covering them with more chemicals is only going to make the breakdown occur faster!

The only bacteria that can be considered is a very light SURFACE bacteria - once you have washed your pony off with soap, baby wipes, whatever that method is, you've removed the surface bacteria.  There is nothing that is "soaking" into your pony and giving it cancer.  By exposing further amounts of the PVC to sunlight, humidity, by carving into the PVC, will likely accelerate the breakdown process.

Why not just enjoy your ponies for what they are?  30+ vintage toys with some natural aging issues?

[Stormness_1]

This. unfortunately pony cancer, plasticizer leak and regrind are examples of the pvc breaking down due to age and exposure to the elements. You can't reverse plastic breakdown. If you get rid of it, it wasn't it to begin with, probably mould or inground dirt, etc.

*edit for typo, lol!

[FarDreamer]

PVC isn't biodegradable and lasts forever.  Like literally.  It never degrades, it just keeps breaking into smaller and smaller bits.  That takes a REALLY long time.  It's why it's so controversial with environmental groups.

The cancer is discoloration due to oxidization, and heat and sun exposure (that has built up over 30 years remember).  Additives are put in pvc to make it less vulnerable to these, but I don't know of anyone who knows for sure how it effects toys specifically.  The vinyl itself won't change much, it's the color that's changing, that's the best way I can explain it anyway.  Painting may stain the vinyl, but its unlikely to make it break down faster than it would have anyway (which is pretty darn slow).

BlackCurtains found dead bacteria in pony cancer a few years back.  It wasn't a large enough test group to say that all pony cancer has bacteria in it.  I suspect that the reason peroxide soaks sometimes work and sometimes don't have to do with whether or not the discoloration is caused by something that can be bleached away, and it likely is caused by different things.  Given the chemical compatibility of hydrogen peroxide and pvc I have serious doubts that it causes discoloration any faster than we would have seen it anyway.  Since people have been sunfading longer than the 17 years I've been collecting, you would think we would have seen more issues from that given PVC's sensitivity to UV radiation, but it doesn't seem to.  I really think we're safe that our ponies will be around with us for our lifetimes and longer.  Heat seems to be the worst for making spots show up somewhat quickly.  You're kind of stuck with oxygen, and ponies have had enough sun exposure that it must cause changes slowly.

Anyway, I don't see why cutting out the affected vinyl would cause spots to spread or new ones to pop up.  The chemical reaction that causes it is somewhat random (see the article).  I think the most likely side effect you'll see is some potential bleeding from the paint down the line.  That may be worth it to you though if you were very unhappy with the pony before.  And the apoxy sculpt probably won't last the hundreds of years that the pvc will.

This article explains things in a way that's pretty understandable:  http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1658365514000880

If you're curious about the biodegradable thing:  https://www.greenlivingtips.com/articles/pvc-and-the-environment.html

p.s., please don't interpret that as I think you should try to get rid of all age spots.  They're going to have age spots.

[Baby Sugarberry]

 

Age spots are entropy.  Literally chemicals coming un-bonded.  PVC is a man-made material with lots of unstable additives (color, fire retardant, plasticizer/softeners, etc.) thrown into the mix.

See this is why I get ticked off when people call it 'cancer'.  It's not a disease.  It's not communicable or dangerous, just a material showing its age.  Your pony will probably suffer a lot more in the long run from the paint / apoxie sculpt, which introduce yet MORE chemicals into the party, than it would have from leaving well enough alone.

[Taxel]

Anyway, I don't see why cutting out the affected vinyl would cause spots to spread or new ones to pop up.  The chemical reaction that causes it is somewhat random (see the article).  I think the most likely side effect you'll see is some potential bleeding from the paint down the line.  That may be worth it to you though if you were very unhappy with the pony before.  And the apoxy sculpt probably won't last the hundreds of years that the pvc will.

It may not have a direct effect on cancer but more chemicals = more variables = more risk. In general, the pony community doesn't ever think about that. We just dump on more and more chemicals and variables. Heck, people have tried to "cure" plasticizer leak with sealer, although thankfully its not widespread/accepted/encouraged. (For anyone tempted: never do this. It will NOT work!)


At this point I think we as a community need to start accepting ponies for what they are: simple plastic toys made for children that were not intended to be collected for decades. We should take better care of the ponies that are still around, flaws or not, and stop baiting just because a pony is dirty or has tangled hair.

But that's pretty much as unpopular as it gets so -shrug-

[MangleCrafter]

Thank you all! I hope my baity Seashell will be okay! Might make a custom out of her, because i already have a good Seashell! Anyway i don't have any other ponies with cancer, i just wanted to know if there was any treatment for it if i got a pony with it in the future.

[Foxtale]

I know this topic comes up a lot but I just want to clarify the nomenclature of what we are discussing.

Is 'pony cancer' just brown spots or are those considered age spots?

Is pony cancer only the brown spots with the darker spots in the middle?

I know things always change so I just want to make sure we are all on the same page. Also thinking and wondering if these findings have changed (my preservation knowledge is a few years off.)

Has there been any evidence of it spreading from pony to pony or just on the individual pony itself?

Btw - FarDreamer- Thank you for all your research and care on preservation issues.  

*Another thought: Do you think it's time we re-classify "pony cancer" with a different name if its just a plastic breakdown? Is there still the bacterial spots and markings vs just age spots?

[Artemesia's Garden]

Paper gets brown spots when it gets old, just sayin. Also I think the term 'age spots' is fine. Or  how about 'moles' other thoughts... Personally I wouldn't bother cutting G1s for any reason.

[FarDreamer]

It got the name pony cancer years back when no one knew what it was.  It's kind of like calling ingrained dirt smooze, not accurate, but everyone knows what you're talking about.  Cancer cancer isn't communicable either, so it's not such an incorrect name, but I do worry that a human with cancer might find it insensitive.  I've never seen anyone complain though.

We know for sure that some of the discoloration is caused by oxidation, heat, and UV exposure.  I also strongly suspect that it's sometimes caused by dirt, bacteria, mold, etc.  This would explain why in the instances that Hydrogen Peroxide works it bubbles on the area, essentially cleaning it out.  From what I've seen, it doesn't bubble on the spots it doesn't remove.  This would make sense when it's discoloration that can't be cleaned away.  I'm not saying this is definitely true, I just suspect it.  I hardly ever bait ponies (only once actually) so I haven't wanted to cut anyone up to test it out.

Geeze no, I don't believe in baiting ponies for minor issues.  And I think most people agree.  It's pretty easy to research the chemical compatibility of PVC when you're not sure whether or not you should try something:

https://www.spilltech.com/wcsstore/SpillTechUSCatalogAssetStore/Attachment/documents/ccg/CBOOM.pdf

http://www.pvc.org/en/p/chemical-resistance

http://www.calpaclab.com/pvc-polyvinyl-chloride-chemical-compatibility-chart/

It's common to paint PVC for industrial purposes, the issues that tends to cause has more to do with the paint sticking than causing deterioration.  I actually haven't' found anything pointing to it causing deterioration, but I'm still looking for info on toys  specifically.  Vinyl toys have paint put on them all the time, eyes, symbols for ponies, and the darned suckers don't implode.  I doubt the toy companies are doing a lot of research on the chemical compatibility of the paint they're using with a toy's face and body.  Especially not this long after their manufacture, but you guys are giving me ideas for things to look up.

[LadyMoondancer]

At this point I think we as a community need to start accepting ponies for what they are: simple plastic toys made for children that were not intended to be collected for decades. We should take better care of the ponies that are still around, flaws or not, and stop baiting just because a pony is dirty or has tangled hair.

Yes . . . I've made customs in the past and I enjoy looking at customs, but dang it seems like some ponies get baited for having the least flaw.  (G4 customs are in a different boat, since every time one is bought off the peg, Hasbro makes another . . . G4 customs of current ponies don't reduce the number of "original" G4s around.)

Hasbro used to sell blank white G3s for customization . . . I wish some intrepid customizers would band together and produce blank ponies in G1 molds.

[Epona]

Does acrylic paint over cancer speed up the break down process?