Why does international shipping have to be a pain?

[lovesbabysquirmy]

Taffeta, I feel your pain and I understand what you are trying to say.  The USA is the largest pony market; it has the most collectors; it has the most secondary sales.  Therefore the general attitude of buying from the secondary market is influenced by them.

It can be next to impossible to find a great seller who understands the in's and out's of online international shopping and shipping.  It gets more complicated and more expensive every year.  and one buyer with inaccurate expectations can rip you off, put you in debt, mess up your credit card... hence why you so often see sellers saying, " I used to ship everywhere... and now I can't."  you know some buyer  jerk took them for a couple-hundred dollar ride and gave them a really bad experience!

The banking systems in EU/UK/USA are VERY different!  People who haven't traveled internationally don't know that.  USA people usually also don't know anything about customs fees because the USA postal system "eats" that loss because... what I just said... The USA is the largest market; it has the most collectors; it has the most secondary sales.

But.... plenty of other countries have trouble too!  Let's not start about Russia and Italy - it's not easy for those collectors!

Maybe we should start a sticky thread for all the AGENTS that one can use when shopping internationally!  Goodness knows we have enough members buying stuff from all over the world!  Agents do make things a lot easier and they are certainly more understanding to your individual circumstance then Pitney Bowes *shudder*.

[Taffeta]

A very good and trusted long term pony friend of mine has just poked me to say that I may have come over too confrontational in what I posted above. I stand by what my original message was - which is that shipping is a choice personal to the seller, not really related to where the buyer is, and that everyone is essentially the same no matter where they come from. But if I did phrase it in an overly confrontational  manner, my bad. I had thought I'd been quite level really overall with this, but as most people here know, I'm autistic, and sometimes I don't catch it before I post it. (That's why I have friends who poke me).

I have reported the post that offended me to the moderators and I have no intention of continuing the debate from the earlier posts since it's not worth it to anyone. I think that Ilovebabysquirmy's idea is a great one, though. Or a detailed FAQ of some kind to help buyers who are thinking of shipping internationally but have no clue how to and are lost. I know we get individual questions sometimes but that's not quite the same thing. Instead of complaining about how negative some sellers are about the world, maybe we can make it positive by highlighting the good side instead for a change?

[lovesbabysquirmy]

I can well and truly admit that when I moved to Canada from the USA, I was aghast at the dramatic changes.  Those of you who were around then understand that basically my collecting came to a halt. 

It's one thing to have a spare $12 USD kicking around in paypal, buy a cheap pony, yay happy days... versus, $12 CAD in your paypal starts to pay for the shipping on the item, or maybe the taxes, it's a tossup!  what spare $12?

[silverdawn]

You moved from the US to Canada Baby Squirmy?  You poor poor thing *hugs*  I moved from Canada to the US so I was the opposite.  And I hear you, shipping is terrible!  Back in the late 90's Canada Post used to be pretty comparable.  Then around 2003 it went crazy stupid.  That ended my collecting/buying/selling/trading.  When I finally got to the States it was like someone let loose a flood gate and I could start wheeling and dealing and collecting all the ponies I wanted!

[plushroo]

I don't mind shipping overseas myself.  I love making other collectors happy by offering them something that may be otherwise impossible to find in their country. I love the compliments I've received over the years. My main gripe is the way ebay has their shipping calculations set up. You have to have the package weight first and put that in and even then you can still get bonked with the shipping cost being more than ebay quoted. Then there's the customs forms where some of the small town post offices around me had no idea of the form change and having to redo the info on another form because the other PO gave me the wrong one? That added with the risk you may get a buyer who is impatient and opens a case on you like I had earlier this year makes it almost not worth it. I rather deal with arena members overseas than ebay unless they are ebay members too so I can have an alternate way of communicating if something goes wrong. I have thought about going with the global shipping program. Let someone else worry with the shipping hassle How is that for sellers?

[kasin]

Plushroo, I'm with you 100% on eBay vs arena sales. 

lovesbabysquirmy and silverdawn, I went US to Canada and back. Canadian shipping is ridiculous, it's cheaper to ship into Canada from the US than domestic Canada post, makes no sense whatsoever. That said there is a loop hole in Canada post international shipping that let's you ship out much cheaper than the US can, so it's not all bad.

[SkyCakes]

Plushroo, I'm with you 100% on eBay vs arena sales. 

lovesbabysquirmy and silverdawn, I went US to Canada and back. Canadian shipping is ridiculous, it's cheaper to ship into Canada from the US than domestic Canada post, makes no sense whatsoever. That said there is a loop hole in Canada post international shipping that let's you ship out much cheaper than the US can, so it's not all bad.

I totally agree with everyone on this. I raise my hand as a fourth person who umm moved to Canada from the Us. I never realized the pricing until it was too late. I also still post to people who are in canada as well as abroad. Shipping is costly anywhere and so are fees. However nothing ventured nothing gained.

[Loona]

this thread has enlightened me in many ways I did not even expect!
while I know it's a matter of personal choice, before this thread I wasn't really able to understand why would someone not post to abroad (unless they have some specific bad experience, but, then again, that can also happen with a domestic transaction), claiming it's too much of a hassle. and of course I, as an international buyer, also came across the "does not post to my country" sign more often than I wanted.
I was always happy to offer international shipping. to me, sending a registered package domestically and internationally is basically all the same. I fill out the same registration form as what I fill out for an inland registered package, I stand in the same line, I spend exactly the same amount of time at the PO. the only difference is I check a different list of fees (customs still might apply, but since it happens on the recipient's end, our PO doesn't make the sender fill out anything. or they might, for a super insured package, but for just a registered one with a tracking number, no).
now I realise I'm a lucky duck with our local postal system: I never knew you US peeps have to fill in forms, and are in for a more complicated transaction at the PO when posting internationally now I understand things a lot better.

based on this, while yes, it often makes me sad to see something I'd love to buy is not available for me for purchase, I'd like to thank all of those who, despite the more bumpy ride, still offer to ship internationally. and thanks also go out to some posters here for giving out the details of the often mentioned but never really specified "pain".

[Taffeta]

I have thought about going with the global shipping program. Let someone else worry with the shipping hassle How is that for sellers?

All the things you cited about ebay shipping in your post above I can relate to and have experienced selling from the UK, too.

Ebay postage function is very annoying here as well. We have to put in UK domestic postage, then EU/Zone 1 postage, then zone 2 postage...and I can never remember which countries are in which zone so it ends up having to calculate an EU postage rate, a US and Canada postage rate, a rate for down under and then still have the option open to have to weigh something for a person who doesn't find that their country is covered in the above. Before I had the scales I lost a lot of money on eating shipping costs because the PO changed rates and weren't good at getting the word out. And of course I was stuck on a limited bus route which ended its service at the same time I finished work, so going to the PO to get quotes was tricky and time consuming - when the PO was open and not being moved into a branch of WHSmiths. So yeah, the scales saved me so much trouble. But Ebay's shipping thing is annoying.

 Royal Mail's site also requires you to do every single weight transaction individually, from the start, so it's really tedious if you have a lot of different weight ranges. Especially if you have to go through the process for tracked and non-tracked options for every one. Listing 20 auctions of mixed weight items on ebay with international rates for each item can literally take a whole afternoon/evening to do. And of course you have to measure the larger items too, because Parcelforce take over if the item has a higher combined measurement than 90cm of its three sides, and they use volumetric calculation, which is a lot more expensive than Royal Mail's options, even tracked.

Mind you, as a buyer I see the benefit to Ebay's thought process. It makes for a smoother checkout as a buyer if a seller has the figures up front. But I think it's an issue everyone has when shipping now. Being exact is tricky wherever you are (and made worse if you are selling in a foreign currency and then some referendum happens and crashes your currency by about 30-40 cents, throwing out your entire calculations. Sigh).

I've never used the GSP as a seller. As a buyer, lately, I find it makes more sense to use it sometimes than straight shipping from the US. I understand the US rates have gone up but when you have a seller who wants to charge you $50 shipping for a bunch of pamphlets that are selling for $10, you know someone's just hit the high button to put off bidders from abroad. At least the GSP gives an option and sometimes it is now randomly cheaper, if the bid price is below the custom threshold. The one concern I've heard from sellers regarding it is the fact they repackage items and that sometimes leads to damage. Although the GSP are liable, it's often the seller who gets the initial blame and fallout from a damaged product even when they have packed it perfectly.

I'm a perfectionist when it comes to postage, so that's why I won't use it. I like to know if I send something delicate that it will arrive with the buyer in the condition I sent it. Not groped around with by someone in the middle trying to save their company money at the expense of customer service.

I'd rather sell through other means if I can, but I am actually thinking that I might just sort stuff and try to get a stall at ponycon next year. I am fed up with ebay selling, but I still have a lot of stuff I don't technically need.

[Khayman81]

This topic has helped me to see through some behavior I did find weird before. So now I understand.
It is true that from Canada the shipping costs are really cheap sometimes and from the UK they get higher for the same product.
Personally I like buying in Canada, they ponies are cheaper and the costs too. They take a bit longer but not that much.
I had the situation lately that I wanted a pony from US and I found it in France, the pony costed a bit more here but with all the shipping plus pony it was half than  if I had bought it from the US...
So for me I would prefer buying closer if I have the opportunity. But since US ponies are better and more htf I would always consider as a buyer to go to the international.
As for the difference between eBay and the Arena sales, I prefer here, since the feedback is always better, but still for the same case as stated before, I found sellers that were always very communicatives.
Anyway, I like this post for allowing us to share our thoughts about that specific topic.

[daffodil101]

This thread has been really interesting.  I must be really lucky-- I have a local PO 2 minutes drive away and they're always super helpful and even give me better prices for being a local.  Filling out a declaration form takes about 2 minutes and there are no customs charges to worry about. 

International postage is crazy expensive in both directions, but those of us in smaller countries don't have much choice if we want to build our collections.  I definitely spend more money on postage than on ponies.  Sometimes I think it would be amazing to live in the US because the domestic postal charges are so cheap!  As we have a huge land mass and a small population our domestic charges are comparatively expensive.  Being able to post ponies for under $5 would be a dream.

I'm sorry to hear what an ordeal it is for so many people though.  I wouldn't have the patience either in some of your shoes.  It makes me appreciate more those who do sell internationally and have a bit more understanding why others don't.