Hydrogen Peroxide Soaks versus Sun Fading

[lostpony]

I've recently acquired a handful of baits some of which have age spots different from what I call cancer:  my definition is more accurately described as "centerpoint cancer".  These new (to me) age spots seem roughly round but not crisply circular and lack a darker spot in the center.  I'll be examining them more closely.

However, what I regard as centerpoint cancer is a less simple mystery than "degradation of plastic" or "staining from fungal growth" because it appears to occur first in the deeper plastic, and further from the dark center, the discoloration is deep in the material not even at the surface (casting doubt on environmentally present fungus which is largely aerobic, or oxygen-requiring) and the crisp round shape of the development looks bacterial like colonies grown from a swab on a petri dish.  Examined axiomatically with basic observation and general knowledge, centerpoint cancer appears to be bacteria, possibly two types working symbiotically, one aerobic (the dark center spot that is present both deep and at the surface) and anaerobic (the less-dark portion that surrounds the darker spot and seems to avoid the surface).

Nonetheless, without more specific knowledge about the materials and testing for the "degradation" products or the potential organisms, it is as yet impossible to know what is really going on.  Further these imperfectly round spots without dark centers do appear more like fungus and yet still can't be known for sure without much better knowledge and testing.

However, I think we can reasonably rely on the experience of collectors with a keen eye and carefully gathered observations over time to conclude that:  the spots don't seem to migrate from the affected ponies to unaffected ponies while being kept in good collection conditions (below 70% humidity or better below 50%, and no extreme temperatures).

Also after reading the "safe handling of plastics in a museum environment" paper, I strongly disagree that medical and food packaging is safe because it's new:  quite the contrary.  I've always seen plastics "offgassing" as a half-life sort of thing:  younger, it gives off more.  My nose tells me so.  When it gets older, yes slower migrating plasticizers are released and other degradation cycles become less negligible, but it is without a doubt that new plastics produce lots of bad things and should never be used in food or medical applications.  I believe it is considered not a problem because it is "unregulated", hm wonder why.  It is unregulated because if any standard were applied to it, you couldn't use it anymore.  We can't avoid it being used on our foods and medical stuff but we can avoid heating it up in the microwave etc.  This whole deal about plasticizers offgassing...wow.  Seriously bad news.  We do need to rethink how we store our collections, and keeping them in poorly ventilated pony rooms.  But most of all, the paper shows that scrubbing our ponies with lots of soap and water is the right way to go.  I've never used my pony toothbrush on my teeth and this practice has been confirmed.  I don't plan to use gloves or stop sniffing my ponies though, so I may still die.  I think we have a lot more exposure to these unsafe materials in our daily lives than through our ponies though, so there is in my opinion no need to get carried away and fear handling our ponies.

Great food for thought there.  Everypony should go ahead and read that paper and consider how we can be a little closer to safe than we are now.

[WaterRaven]

But now that I've read that the brown spots are most likely caused by a fungus, should I halve her around my other ponies? Will the fungus spread?

He says that fungal spores are everywhere, and if the humidity goes above 70%, it will attack the vinyl.  It doesn't really matter if there are already stained ponies around or not.  The vinyl provides a substrate for the fungus and it feeds of off the plasticizer.  What we call smooze can also be caused by fungus, and another type can cause the pink stains that are common on vinyl.

Ok, that's great news. Thank you. My ponies are on the second floor in my office and it's quite dry-- to my plant's dismay. I will continue to deflock and restore her then Very exciting. I am looking forward to trying the peroxide bath method to get rid of her brown spots.

I had always wondered about the pink spots as well. I had though previously they were from nail polish or markers. Thank you again!

@lostpony Thank you so much for sharing! I am glad to know that other collectors haven't found the spots migrating to other ponies in their herd. I am looking forward to continuing her restoration. Thank you again!

[lostpony]

thanks for reading!  I've been trying to keep my posts a bit shorter but on this issue I do go on.

As a low-end new collector I was very worried about statements that you don't want to collect those flawed ponies because they're contagious but after a year now of yammering with people around here, I can't find anyone who knows any reports from anyone who has actually had that happen. 

So while we don't know whether or what nature of life exactly might be in some of the spots, the spots have not been observed to be contagious.  In fact, while my first couple of centerpoint-spotted ponies were each from groups of ponies that had been stored together for a long time including one that had clearly been in a rat-nested box in a dank storage unit (the ebay listed said "good condition" HA), I got other ponies from the same groups and the spots were only on the individual ponies, so I'm convinced they are not very contagious.

While I'm a little obsessed with figuring out what's going on and trying to affect restoration, I don't hesitate to acquire such flawed ponies and this week I found a G1 NBBE baby Moondancer in the wild with body condition problems including centerpoint and other brown spots and I still celebrated my pony luck (got three other G1s the same day, 2 are flawless Yay).

Good luck deflocking etc and don't forget we love to see pics!!

[Artemesia's Garden]

  I wonder if coating the hair in petroleum jelly would protect it during peroxide soaking?  Or some other substance?

  Of course then the question is would the petroleum react in any way with the peroxide? 

  I really appreciate this thread, as I love to clean items but have often pondered the implications of "restoration" and long term changes they might cause.  I don't have any clear answers, of course, but I do worry we might look back one day with regret on various fixes that seemed harmless at the time.  I think these discussions are great and I use them to help guide my cleaning practices.

That's a great idea.  I doubt it but I don't know.  Might even be able to use paraffin wax.  I might have to try it on some spare hair.

[lostpony]

I've thought about this too.  The key is to find something that isn't affected by (soluable in) the H2O2 but still doesn't affect the hair (or symbol paint) either.

Most adhesives etc and other things are affected by the peroxide so....if you find something that works especially that blocks light for peroxide sunfading, I'd love to know about it.  So far all I know about if foil which is clumsy and hard to use.

[FarDreamer]

I am looking forward to trying the peroxide bath method to get rid of her brown spots. again!

Just make sure to read about the side effects before trying it:  http://www.mlppreservationproject.com/materials.html#HydrogenPeroxide
http://www.mlppreservationproject.com/body.html#Cancer

I use it all the time with good results, and am behind on updating my results on the site, but it does cause damage to the hair and fading so you want to be sure the pros are worth the cons each specific ponies' case.

[Shabi]

Another question about peroxide soaks. Does it need UV or it can be done in complete darkness? Why soaking is important? Can't we just put a towel soaked in peroxide around a problematic area of the pony and re-wet it once in a while? It may take longer, but it can save the hair. Especially if the spots aren't that bad. I have one pony with a pen mark on get hoof. I'll try to put that one hoof in peroxide and see what happens. She's pink by the way and also G4, can she fade?

[FarDreamer]

Another question about peroxide soaks. Does it need UV or it can be done in complete darkness? - myself and others have tried and it doesn't seem to work, but I don't know why.

Why soaking is important? Can't we just put a towel soaked in peroxide around a problematic area of the pony and re-wet it once in a while? - I don't know, it would be great if it worked.  This is something I've been wanting to try:  http://www.using-hydrogen-peroxide.com/hydrogen-peroxide-gel.html

G4, can she fade? - I don't know why not, but G4 hair isn't always nylon and I don't know how the different hairs react to it.

[WaterRaven]

I am looking forward to trying the peroxide bath method to get rid of her brown spots. again!

Just make sure to read about the side effects before trying it:  http://www.mlppreservationproject.com/materials.html#HydrogenPeroxide
http://www.mlppreservationproject.com/body.html#Cancer

I use it all the time with good results, and am behind on updating my results on the site, but it does cause damage to the hair and fading so you want to be sure the pros are worth the cons each specific ponies' case.

I'll be sure to read the article. Thank you. She has quite a few brown spots on her face that can't be covered up and her hair is already ruined. I have to rehair her anyway. She is my first re-hair and restore. I've cleaned up ponies with conditioner, a good scrub, and used nail polish remover to take off marks and nail polish and even done some sun fading to get rid of permanent marker, but this will be my first big restore. I am excited

I'll take photos of her this week ^_^

[Artemesia's Garden]

Did you wash the acetone off afterwards? Good luck with your restoration!

[Crystal-Sushi]

I'm excited to read all this, as I have a couple of ponies in need of a peroxide soak, all hairless and in such bad shape I doubt I'll be able to make them worse even if I manage to mess up somehow. My question is regarding a Confetti who's part of this group though - aside from having cancer on her body, her head is also completely brown? I don't think it's normal discolouration though, as when I took off her head I found that the neckplug/inside the head are still white? The discolouration stops right at the neck seam and doesn't at all continue to her body... What is happening here - does anyone have any ideas? Would a peroxide soak be able to make a difference?

[FarDreamer]

What is happening here - does anyone have any ideas? Would a peroxide soak be able to make a difference?

It could be a lot of things, but I don't know how we'd know for sure.  That's the sort of staining I use peroxide soaks for.  Sometimes it totally "fixes" it, sometimes it doesn't do anything.  I don't know how you can tell without just trying it.