Ebay etics?

[Nella]

Strange thread maybe, but I read the thread about Rapunzel in the Pony Coral. There was said that it is not allowed to go lower than a BIN price on Ebay.

I have no experience with Ebay at all! My husband sometimes buyes something through Ebay, but I've never done that. I was now looking for some pony's and found a few in Germany. I was hoping to get a lower price so I have been PM-ing with the seller for the options. There is one with a BIN price and one with BIN or best offer.

I'm only known with online communities (forums) and Marktplaats (our kind of Ebay, but seemingly very different!). I am used to contact the seller first for extra informations and pictures and if the price is higher than I'm willing to pay try to negotiate.

Am I doing something wrong? 

[LittleSpiffy]

Strange thread maybe, but I read the thread about Rapunzel in the Pony Coral. There was said that it is not allowed to go lower than a BIN price on Ebay.

I have no experience with Ebay at all! My husband sometimes buyes something through Ebay, but I've never done that. I was now looking for some pony's and found a few in Germany. I was hoping to get a lower price so I have been PM-ing with the seller for the options. There is one with a BIN price and one with BIN or best offer.

I'm only known with online communities (forums) and Marktplaats (our kind of Ebay, but seemingly very different!). I am used to contact the seller first for extra informations and pictures and if the price is higher than I'm willing to pay try to negotiate.

Am I doing something wrong? 

There's no set rule about asking a seller to take a lower price, but usually if they're willing to negotiate they will have a "Best Offer" option along with the "Buy It Now" price.

Best Offer gives a buyer three chances to make an offer lower than the Buy It Now price.  Sellers can automatically set a range on what prices they're willing to accept.  If they do this and you make an offer within that range, your offer is automatically accepted and you purchased the item.  If it is below their range, it will automatically be declined.  Remember, you only have three chances to make an offer.

If a seller does not set a range for their Best Offer, your offer is sent to the seller.  The seller has 48 hours to respond or the offer expires.  The seller can either decline or send you a counter-offer.

Asking a seller to take a lower price on an auction that does not have the Best Offer option or is lower than the auction's selling price can be considered rude.  It really depends on the situation and the seller.

[Galactica]

Making a BIN offer is not rude-

What people don't like, is when there is a coveted pony-  and sometimes even a few bids.  Then someone emails the seller and offers to buy the pony off ebay.  Suddenly those bidding on the pony see that their is cancelled and the "item is no longer available."

Causes lots of bitter feelings.

Also, it is actually against the Ebay terms of use for an ebay user to try and negotiate a sale of the item off ebay (also against the rules for the seller to offer to sell to another ebay user an item listed on ebay off ebay). 

[Keemax]

From what you describe, Marktplaats seems to be an online version of a flea market - Ebay really isn't like that at all.

You're only really allowed to 'haggle' for a lower price with the seller if the listing has the 'Best Offer' option, because that means the seller is open to accepting offers from buyers. Even in this case you're not supposed to PM the seller with your offer directly - you're supposed to use the 'Make Offer' button on the listing to do that. Ebay only lets you make three offers to the seller on a single listing because it helps to prevent the seller potentially being harassed with offers by a buyer. (i.e. the buyer raises their offer by a penny each time and yes, I've had that happen before)

If the BIN listing does not have a 'Best Offer' option, then you're technically not allowed to PM the seller for a lower price because the seller has therefore opted out of accepting offers. In this case it's supposed to be a 'this is the price, take it or leave it' situation and if you try to haggle, you're being unfair to other potential buyers who may also be interested in the item for a lower price but were not given the chance to buy it at that price.

True, some sellers will work out a deal with you if you PM them for a lower price on their BIN listing which doesn't have the 'Best Offer' option, but then they're also at fault for being unfair just as you would be.

When it comes to auctions, however, if the auction has bids you aren't allowed to offer or ask the seller for a BIN price because you're asking them to cancel the auction for a false reason and sell it separately to you when there were other buyers before you already confirming they were willing to pay money for this item.

But, if the auction doesn't have any bids on it, then you are allowed to to ask the seller if they have a BIN price in mind and if they would consider adding it to the listing. To be clear, by 'asking' I don't mean sending them an offer or even suggesting a price range, I mean literally just asking if they considered putting a BIN price on the item. If the seller adds a BIN listing to the auction, then it's considered fair because:
a) the auction has no bids, so no-one feels cheated out of the item.
and
b) the BIN price would be open to all buyers, not just you, so everyone has the option of buying the item at that price.

It's important to understand that when you buy from forums, you're dealing with private sellers on a private platform and PMing the seller directly is all part of making a purchase. Ebay, however, is a public platform, meaning businiss sellers also use the site, thus things are supposed to be handled objectively and private sellers are expected to follow the same rules as the business sellers.

In short, buying something from a forum is like going to a yard sale/car boot sale/flea market - essentially whoever grabs it first/makes the best offer gets it - whereas buying something from ebay is usually like shopping at a store in that all buyers have an equally fair chance to bid on/buy/make an offer on an item.

[LadyMoondancer]

Acceptable:

- There is an item up for BIN and you haggle with the seller to lower the BIN.

- There is an item up for auction with no bids and you ask the seller to put a BIN on it so you can insta-buy it.

- There is an item with "OBO" on it and you make an offer.

Frowned upon:

- There is an auction, with or without bids on it, and you ask the seller to sell the item to you outside of eBay.  (Usually the seller will officially claim they "lost" the item as they sell it under the table.)

- There is an auction that already has bids and you ask the seller to set a BIN (which requires cancelling the other bids) so you can buy it.

The potential buyer in the other thread was fine ethically . . . It was a BIN they were interested in, not an auction.  But the seller wanted to sell it under the table (to avoid eBay fees), and that is risky.


Also, some sellers will be offended if someone offers a very low offer on a BIN or OBO (aka lowballing).  If it's a $4 item then, sure, offer $2.  But if it's a $50 BIN and you offer $25 then you may get a frosty reception.

If the BIN listing does not have a 'Best Offer' option, then you're technically not allowed to PM the seller for a lower price because the seller has therefore opted out of accepting offers.

Nah, you are allowed to PM the seller and ask for a lower fixed price.    The rule is that the transaction must occur on eBay, so that eBay gets its fees.  It's not really unfair, any other buyer could have PMed and asked the same thing.

That said:  the seller is under no obligation to do it, or even to respond to the buyer.  And if the item is already fixed price, then there's a very real risk that some other buyer will BIN it in the meantime.

[tulagirl]

I guess I am kind of different.  I feel it isn't acceptable ever to contact a seller and ask them to  lower the price of their item even if it has a bin price.  If they have a "make and offer" then there is an acceptable time to make an offer.  What is more acceptable to me is to watch an item that is priced to high in hopes it will eventually be lowered after months of it not selling. 

 If the seller's have an unrealistic expectation on what their stuff is going to sell for I look for another pony that is lower priced and fits my budget. I do sell and buy and I find it extremely rude when people contact me out of the blue to lower my price, try to tell me the value of my item and sell it just to them.

[northstar3184]

I don't think it's wrong to make offer on a BIN, as long as you don't go about it rudely.


There's a book that I wanted on Ebay. It was set as a BIN and priced very high in comparison to what other books in the series have been selling for: The books sell for ~$15.00 in mint condition and I saw a set of 3 in mint condition go for $31.00.  There was book in the set I wanted. I've only seen two sellers offer it in the last nine months. One seller has 10 copies and is selling them for $41.00 apiece. Needless to say in the 9-month period since the seller listed those 10 books none of them have sold, so I pmed the seller and offered $25.00 for 1. I didn't get a response but felt it was worth a shot.
 

[Stormy31685]

Within the pony community, it is frowned upon to ask a seller to end an auction-style listing early on eBay for a price way below fair value.  Some collectors have applied this rule to the "buy it now" or fixed price listings that don't have a best offer option as well.

As for eBay, they are out to make money, so as long as the transactions occur on their site so they can get their fees, they don't really mind.  If it were against the rules to ask a seller to give a discount on a fixed price listing, eBay would not have given sellers the option to send a personal offer to buyers when they send messages about items.  They added this feature, in fact, because so many buyers were asking sellers for better deals, and they were taking them off eBay.
It is always wise to remember, however, that eBay's rules and protections are in place to contribute to their profits, and not just out of the kindness of their hearts toward buyers and sellers.

I feel, and always have, that if what you are asking for is fair, and you are not out to cheat anyone, and it is not an auction-style listing, then it is not out of line to ask for something. 

As a seller, I get buyers every day who ask for discounts or make offers even when the "best offer" option is not on my listings.

At the end of the day, you should always ask yourself if what you are doing is unfair or potentially hurtful to someone else - be it a seller or a buyer. 

[Keemax]

Nah, you are allowed to PM the seller and ask for a lower fixed price.    The rule is that the transaction must occur on eBay, so that eBay gets its fees.  It's not really unfair, any other buyer could have PMed and asked the same thing.

....And I've just realised 'not allowed' was a very poor choice of words on my part. My bad.

LadyMoondancer is right; PMing for a lower price on a BIN is not against ebay's policy. I didn't mean to imply that it was, despite that being how it came across.

However, I wouldn't advise doing so.

The reason being that most sellers list something as BIN because they have a pretty good, if not exact, idea of what price they want for it, and they will add a best offer option if they're open to taking offers, because it attracts more buyers.

Sure, not every seller remembers to add it, or even checks that it's on their listing, but that's not usually the case. Not every seller is willing to go lower on their BIN listing - that's kind of why it's optional to add 'Best Offer' in the first place. If you ignore that they haven't added the option and go ahead and PM them an offer, you risk angering them because they may think you're implying that they haven't valued their item correctly (which may or may not be true) and become offended. That's a situation you'd want to avoid as a buyer.

It's the seller's responsibility - and not that of the buyer - to make sure the 'Best Offer' option is added to their listing if they're open to offers and to appropriately price their item. If there's no option for offers, it's safer to assume they don't accept any and if you think the item is overpriced, it's better to just be patient and look for the same one at a price you agree with. Besides, if it truly is overpriced it probably won't sell and the seller may lower it out of their own decision because of that.

It might be worth mentioning that all these PMing "do's and don'ts" are only really applicable to private sellers - business sellers are completely different. Don't try to PM them unless there's an issue with the item.

[Nella]

Acceptable:

- There is an item up for BIN and you haggle with the seller to lower the BIN.

- There is an item up for auction with no bids and you ask the seller to put a BIN on it so you can insta-buy it.

- There is an item with "OBO" on it and you make an offer.

Frowned upon:

- There is an auction, with or without bids on it, and you ask the seller to sell the item to you outside of eBay.  (Usually the seller will officially claim they "lost" the item as they sell it under the table.)

- There is an auction that already has bids and you ask the seller to set a BIN (which requires cancelling the other bids) so you can buy it.

Thanks! That makes it a whole lot easier to understand.

In this case there were indeed BIN's and in one case the option to make a lower offer. One of them offered to lower the BIN (that is possible I guess) and the other free shipping. So there are possibilities. And I agree that it is for the seller to decide if he is willing to go lower in price. But in case of a auction that is a no-no. That seems obvious to me.

Indeed a world apart from our Marktplaats!

[LadyMoondancer]

No problem. 

OH, I forgot one more (although it's kind of a variation of the ones I listed):

Very very frowned on:

- Asking the seller to privately / separately sell one or two valuable ponies out of a lot.

This used to happen all the time, people would sneakily try to get sellers to sell ponies like Mimic separately from a lot.  The seller would usually claim that the rare pony had been "lost", or they would just cancel the auction and then relist it minus the rare ponies.  Very frustrating for everyone bidding on the auction.