UPDATE! ALL FINISHED! Was: Any Problems With HoustonCollector72?

[KarentheUnicorn]

KarentheUnicorn - usually the post office would pay the seller because that's where the contract lies.

This is from the PO's website:

Proof of Damage

Photos that clearly show the extent of damage will help with your case. For damaged claims, you’ll also need to provide an estimate of the repair costs from a reputable dealer.

If you received something damaged, please hang onto it until your claim is settled. You may be asked to take them to your local Post Office™ for inspection later. Please do not reship the package.

If a buyer has the item, I don't think the seller can take photos of the damaged item/packaging or 'hang onto the item' - it's on the buyers end at that point isn't it?

[LittleSpiffy]

It's on the seller's end:

https://www.canadapost.ca/cpo/mc/personal/support/helpcentre/tracking/inter_damaged.jsf?ssl=1

With USPS it can go either way - the seller or buyer can file a claim. 

[KarentheUnicorn]

KarentheUnicorn - usually the post office would pay the seller because that's where the contract lies.

This is from the PO's website:

Proof of Damage

Photos that clearly show the extent of damage will help with your case. For damaged claims, you’ll also need to provide an estimate of the repair costs from a reputable dealer.

If you received something damaged, please hang onto it until your claim is settled. You may be asked to take them to your local Post Office™ for inspection later. Please do not reship the package.

If a buyer has the item, I don't think the seller can take photos of the damaged item/packaging or 'hang onto the item' - it's on the buyers end at that point isn't it?

Canadian Post Office or USPS?  The claim is through the seller's (CanadaPost), right?

OH Canada :p

Either way, IF a case is opened wouldn't the buyer have to show evidence of the damage, no matter where it came from? The seller can't do that considering the item and packing is not in they're hands anymore.

I was just thinking that as soon as you get a damaged item you would report it directly to the PO, considering canada post wouldn't have brought it to the buyer if the buyer is in the USA.



Post Merge: December 17, 2014, 04:04:21 PM

It's on the seller's end:

https://www.canadapost.ca/cpo/mc/personal/support/helpcentre/tracking/inter_damaged.jsf?ssl=1

With USPS it can go either way - the seller or buyer can file a claim. 

Well, the reason I assumed it's on the buyers end is because, when I sell stuff a lot of times insurance can be extra, and sometimes buyers will request a certain amount of insurance on an item (though now with Priority mail it's included to a certain amount) - so generally the buyer is the one paying for the insurance, not really the seller - it's generally been an added thing to shipping that the buyer would request/payfor.

[LittleSpiffy]

KarentheUnicorn - usually the post office would pay the seller because that's where the contract lies.

This is from the PO's website:

Proof of Damage

Photos that clearly show the extent of damage will help with your case. For damaged claims, you’ll also need to provide an estimate of the repair costs from a reputable dealer.

If you received something damaged, please hang onto it until your claim is settled. You may be asked to take them to your local Post Office™ for inspection later. Please do not reship the package.

If a buyer has the item, I don't think the seller can take photos of the damaged item/packaging or 'hang onto the item' - it's on the buyers end at that point isn't it?

Canadian Post Office or USPS?  The claim is through the seller's (CanadaPost), right?

OH Canada :p

Either way, IF a case is opened wouldn't the buyer have to show evidence of the damage, no matter where it came from? The seller can't do that considering the item and packing is not in they're hands anymore.

I was just thinking that as soon as you get a damaged item you would report it directly to the PO, considering canada post wouldn't have brought it to the buyer if the buyer is in the USA.

I would think so - but not always!  I've only completed one case for a Kitchen Aid mixer that the buyer claimed was damaged (no actual proof though - he said it smelled funny when he turned it on).

What I did for USPS was take a screenshot of the auction screen with the winning amount clearly posted, a screen shot of the buyer's email/eBay claim stating that it was broken upon arrival, and that was enough.  I didn't get any photos from the buyer (because there was not physical damage anyway).  The thing was so much money to ship (like $50+ via   Priority from PA to CA) that I let him keep the thing to do as he wished with it. I refunded the buyer ASAP via the eBay claim and waited for USPS to settle the insurance claim.  I could very well have been out what I spent on the mixer + shipping, but USPS approved my claim within the week.  The buyer (if the mixer was broken) at least got some Kitchen Aid attachments/bowl for free and I ended up with the same profit that I had earned had the mixer not had been damaged. 

Now, don't go reading into what I said about me refunding first!    My story is just to show that, with USPS, you don't always have to have pictures of the damage.  Having an email from the buyer claiming it was damaged was enough in my situation.

CanadaPost has their own process.  I'm just sharing my story for others to keep in mind in case they ever run into a similar problem.

Karen, I re-read your reply.  Because Thunderwing paid CanadaPost and used their insurance, even if the damage happened when the package was in USPS custody, the claim still has to be through CanadaPost. 

[HoustonCollector72]

I did not request for insurance but I'm glad it was charged otherwise it would no coverage for this loss ,I still  have the 2 items in their box just how i received them in case is needed as it was requested by Thunderwing.

[LittleSpiffy]

I did not request for insurance but I'm glad it was charged otherwise it would no insurance claim . I still  have the 2 items in their box just how i received them in case is needed as it was requested by Thunderwing.

  I'm glad the insurance was added too!  I fell onto this thread today and have major feels for both of you! 

[HoustonCollector72]

Wow.  Multiple people have stated (myself included) that shipping in a Styrofoam box has never been an issue with the post office before so there is no way Thunder can be held at fault here.  Yet you are still unwilling to work with her on a refund pending the insurance claim?  Do you really think she should have to eat the damage herself, when she is not at fault?  True, you are not at fault either.  That is why giving a 25$ refund now and a 25$ refund if insurance claim goes through is very fair.  If she gave you 50$ now but the claim was denied then she would be out the 50$ through no fault of her own.  If the claim doesn't go through and she refunds you half, then you have both born the damage equally.  That is fair.  It isn't fair if you accept 25$ and ponies because again, if the claim is denied then she is out the entire damage and you are out nothing. 

Seriously, your reaction in this thread has been very poor.  It seems you are very nice to deal with when things go well, but when there are problems you are less than civil.  This is where a truly good trader shows their worth- when there are problems.  Because of your lack of patience in this and Closet's transaction, I will avoid dealing with you in the future.

ETA: And seriously if we're passing around a collection plate to make this go away, let me know because I'll gladly chip in.

Like I said before  any judgemental opinion against me is received with a grain of salt thrown over my shoulder  

If by attitudes we go, lets start with yours, judging me ,when  you are not the one being accused and shamed on this thread
so hold your horses little lady and like I said before anyone that agrees with how this is being handled  then by all means , the feeling is mutual keep your ponies and judgement to yourself .

 

Post Merge: December 17, 2014, 05:11:58 PM

I am also willing to put up the $25, so that Thunderwing then owes ME and not you.

HoustonCollector - you need to stop accusing people of ganging up on you, and consider your own actions. Remember the ol' Dr Phil adage - with every finger you point, three are point back towards you.

I'm sorry but you as administrator here should remain neutral

Really ? this is your advice as Admin in this Forum ?
Just Wow , seems like you are even encouraging them to do it and for me to accept whatever deal you think is right .
Shouldn't your position be Neutral here??

 

[brighteyes]

If by attitudes we go, lets start with yours, judging me ,when  you are not the one being accused and shamed on this thread
so hold your horses *edit* and like I said before anyone that agrees with how this is being handled  then by all means , the feeling is mutual keep your ponies and judgement to yourself .
 

*edit*

[Thunderwing]

I agree with Stormy's reasoning here.

Houston, you are now being deliberately belligerent. The OP is offering you a refund but is unable to do so all in one deposit.
This does NOT mean she is out to swindle you, or to steal from you.

The accusations of theft that have been thrown are wildly inaccurate.

Houston - it boils down to this. If you want your money back, you will have to WAIT or end up with nothing whatsoever.

Under no circumstances do I believe the MOC was deliberately left out and resold. This community is too small to support the MOC being resold without news of it reaching someone's ears. The more you stress about this, and develop theories, the more you will stress yourself and alienate the community.

Closing my claim now and accepting just 25 and a promise to be paid later,will guarantee just the refund i receive now ,
does that " later " has a set date, or is it just floating in the future ?
they way she told me is that the "later" depends of the insurance claim outcome and that is not ok with me


Post Merge: December 16, 2014, 10:12:39 PM

But  I will take ponies if she does not have all the money
send me the refund of 25 and send the rest on ponies 


 

Post Merge: December 16, 2014, 10:21:43 PM

I have sent a PM to Thunderwing , I will accept a  refund with ponies she has for sale.

waiting on her response

Part 1:
Almost 9pm EST and the claim is still active on my paypal account. The claim is for the full $185, so until the claim comes down, I can't do a partial refund on the purchase. Houston wants me to send him money first, and then he'll take it down? I should send the funds as a payment, if I understand what he said in PM. No. Claim comes down first, then $25 refund from the original payment he sent me, with another $25 pending once the insurance money comes back to me. If the claim does not come down, I will fight it.

For the record, too, the parcel was NOT fully insured. Houston did not request insurance. *I* insured the parcel for part of the full value, $30, $30, and $40 for the three ponies. Because it never ever occurred to me that the ponies would get stolen. I insured it at that level based on a guesstimate of what the ponies would be devalued by if they cards were damaged, since the ponies would still be worth something if decarded. Plus extra insurance beyond $100 is quite expensive, and I was already paying part of the shipping myself (I charged $35, actual was $36.44), PLUS I didn't want Houston to get nailed with heavy duty/tax/fees.  SO even if the post office insurance comes back for $40, I still stand to be out of pocket. Which I accept, I chose to assume they wouldn't get stolen, and chose to not put full insurance on them, my choice, my responsibility, and I accept that part of it.

Part 2:
Yes, I do make the claim through Canada Post. My contract was with them. As I told the one postal clerk, who confirmed that it would be Canada Post who pays the insurance... "My contract was with Canada Post. I paid Canada Post to make sure it got there safely. I don't care if Canada Post chooses to hand parcels over to some guy dressed in pajamas and riding a donkey. Take it up with him yourself, that was your choice and does not affect my contract with you." The poor postal worker was trying so hard not to laugh when I said that I thought she might hurt herself. We know that the tampering happened AFTER the parcel crossed the border, because the USPS label was also tampered with. That just means that Canada Post will be investigating south of the border as well as north of. HOWEVER, because the damage happened in the USA, I WILL need Houston's help. I don't know if Canada Post is only going to want a statement, photographs, a notarized letter, to have the box dropped off at a depot there, or what. I haven't had to do this before.

(I have more things to type, need to copy a few things in first, bear with me...)

[HoustonCollector72]

I agree with Stormy's reasoning here.

Houston, you are now being deliberately belligerent. The OP is offering you a refund but is unable to do so all in one deposit.
This does NOT mean she is out to swindle you, or to steal from you.

The accusations of theft that have been thrown are wildly inaccurate.

Houston - it boils down to this. If you want your money back, you will have to WAIT or end up with nothing whatsoever.

Under no circumstances do I believe the MOC was deliberately left out and resold. This community is too small to support the MOC being resold without news of it reaching someone's ears. The more you stress about this, and develop theories, the more you will stress yourself and alienate the community.

Closing my claim now and accepting just 25 and a promise to be paid later,will guarantee just the refund i receive now ,
does that " later " has a set date, or is it just floating in the future ?
they way she told me is that the "later" depends of the insurance claim outcome and that is not ok with me


Post Merge: December 16, 2014, 10:12:39 PM

But  I will take ponies if she does not have all the money
send me the refund of 25 and send the rest on ponies 


 

Post Merge: December 16, 2014, 10:21:43 PM

I have sent a PM to Thunderwing , I will accept a  refund with ponies she has for sale.

waiting on her response

Almost 9pm EST and the claim is still active on my paypal account. The claim is for the full $185, so until the claim comes down, I can't do a partial refund on the purchase. Houston wants me to send him money first, and then he'll take it down? I should send the funds as a payment, if I understand what he said in PM. No. Claim comes down first, then $25 refund from the original payment he sent me, with another $25 pending once the insurance money comes back to me. If the claim does not come down, I will fight it.

For the record, too, the parcel was NOT fully insured. Houston did not request insurance. *I* insured the parcel for part of the full value, $30, $30, and $40 for the three ponies. Because it never ever occurred to me that the ponies would get stolen. I insured it at that level based on a guesstimate of what the ponies would be devalued by if they cards were damaged, since the ponies would still be worth something if decarded. Plus extra insurance beyond $100 is quite expensive, and I was already paying part of the shipping myself (I charged $35, actual was $36.44), PLUS I didn't want Houston to get nailed with heavy duty/tax/fees.  SO even if the post office insurance comes back for $40, I still stand to be out of pocket. Which I accept, I chose to assume they wouldn't get stolen, and chose to not put full insurance on them, my choice, my responsibility, and I accept that part of it.

(I have more things to type, need to copy a few things in first, bear with me...)

  AS I understood by our PM's, you are not willing to pay me the 50 dllrs even with the claim down ,neither  "take the risk " of giving me the money as store credit ,as I offered before ,since the Admin said you do not have the money, but the money is there,you are just not willing to make a full refund of any kind.
My question about when to expect the rest remains with no answer .
Since I do not accept 25 now and 25 later ,because if you are not willing to make a full refund now you won't likely do it later either.
as per our PM your decision is : let paypal decide.

[Loa]

Post Merge: December 17, 2014, 05:11:58 PM

I am also willing to put up the $25, so that Thunderwing then owes ME and not you.

HoustonCollector - you need to stop accusing people of ganging up on you, and consider your own actions. Remember the ol' Dr Phil adage - with every finger you point, three are point back towards you.

I'm sorry but you as administrator here should remain neutral

Really ? this is your advice as Admin in this Forum ?
Just Wow , seems like you are even encouraging them to do it and for me to accept whatever deal you think is right .
Shouldn't your position be Neutral here??
 

Not at all. I am giving you years of experience, and you have the benefit of that. (And you seem to be repeating yourself)
Let me break this down for you.

You have been offered solutions.
You are rejecting them.
The solution has been recommended by multiple people, including the Mods & Admin.
It is within your rights to not want this deal but at the end of the day you may end up with nothing.
If you have a further suggestion you are welcome to make it, but unfortunately, all I am seeing, and my Mods have agreed, is you accusing the OP of theft, and with ever increasing turbulence.

How do you want this to end?
It seems that you would like to proof that the OP has stolen the MOC, and has resold it for more funds.
You have not provided proof of this.
The OP cannot provide you with what she does not have.

Please advise me and everyone here, what your next step is.
Is it $50 in one lot? Taking ponies of equal value? (Which I see causing more issues)

If I was not neutral, I could not see the advantage of a resolution and I would have banned everyone and locked down this topic.

ETA: You seem to have thought about your response to me and removed it.
I am keeping my response and yours here, as I want everyone to see the whole picture.

I have removed the dramatic, and unnecessary comments from people who are having their fun.

[HoustonCollector72]

Post Merge: December 17, 2014, 05:11:58 PM

I am also willing to put up the $25, so that Thunderwing then owes ME and not you.

HoustonCollector - you need to stop accusing people of ganging up on you, and consider your own actions. Remember the ol' Dr Phil adage - with every finger you point, three are point back towards you.

I'm sorry but you as administrator here should remain neutral

Really ? this is your advice as Admin in this Forum ?
Just Wow , seems like you are even encouraging them to do it and for me to accept whatever deal you think is right .
Shouldn't your position be Neutral here??
 

Not at all. I am giving you years of experience, and you have the benefit of that. (And you seem to be repeating yourself)
Let me break this down for you.

You have been offered solutions.
You are rejecting them.
The solution has been recommended by multiple people, including the Mods & Admin.
It is within your rights to not want this deal but at the end of the day you may end up with nothing.
If you have a further suggestion you are welcome to make it, but unfortunately, all I am seeing, and my Mods have agreed, is you accusing the OP of theft, and with ever increasing turbulence.

How do you want this to end?
It seems that you would like to proof that the OP has stolen the MOC, and has resold it for more funds.
You have not provided proof of this.
The OP cannot provide you with what she does not have.

Please advise me and everyone here, what your next step is.
Is it $50 in one lot? Taking ponies of equal value? (Which I see causing more issues)

If I was not neutral, I could not see the advantage of a resolution and I would have banned everyone and locked down this topic.

ETA: You seem to have thought about your response to me and removed it.
I am keeping my response and yours here, as I want everyone to see the whole picture.

I have removed the dramatic, and unnecessary comments from people who are having their fun.

I just exchanged some Pm's with Thunderwing and her intention about the issue at hand is pretty clear to me : She refuses to make a full refund either by funds or store credit . and I refuse to take a partial refund .
no trust from her ,I'm willing to pay for more ponies and get my store credit  and trust her with a new transaction and move on but she is declining that .therefore is my last post on this issue

locking the thread a long time ago would have shown Neutrality to me by the way
Is too late  now ,but at least I learned  how all works here when things go this way and what "nice supportive " people to stay away from now on.

Thanks but NO Thanks



 

[Jocelyn]

I am not taking a stance, but I am just curious - by full refund, do you mean the full $185, or $50?

[lovesbabysquirmy]

At this point, if there is a claim going on, the money has already been taken from the seller and is sitting in "stasis" until it can be released - when the claim is fully investigated by Paypal.  It is wholly unfair to demand that an additional Paypal payments be made as a "refund" while the original funds are held up in a claim.  That is asking the seller for a 200% refund and that is just beyond reasonable. If you did not request insurance, that is even more frustrating to this long-standing member of the community who honestly probably was quite HAPPY to share some of her ponies to help you complete your G2 collection!     The seller insured it out of pocket and paid extra for shipping which makes the whole thing even more distasteful. 

While the postal system is a terrible beast when it comes to lost/destroyed packages (Nirvanas from South America, anyone?!), once you let the seller know that there has been some kind of outrageous mishap (like a missing MOC and a different box entirely), and they acknowledge your concerns, mirror them, and are just as horrified and mortified as you are, your next move is to say, "I hope we can resolve this!  I have sent you numerous photos - if you need to use any of them in your insurance claim, feel free.  I will follow up with you in 2 business days to see how things are going.  Thanks for understanding my concerns!"  Your next move is not supposed to be to march over to Paypal and file a claim to freeze up their account.   

Considering the risk of shipping over the holidays a second time, and having the seller spend yet MORE money on shipping costs... I don't think a refund in ponies is fair either! 

Please try to put yourself in the seller's shoes - if you parted with some of your collection and it got lost in transit on the way to its new home, would you not be a little anxious about it?    Just let the insurance process play out - Thunderwing is seriously not going to forget about the refund if you cancel the claim.  Reputation is earned here by feedback and long-standing friendships.  The community is not jumping down your throat as a whole; we are trying to show you some perspective.  I think we ALL have gotten burned by the postal system before and it totally sucks! But it isn't the buyer's fault and it's not the seller's fault.  You want to find someone to blame?  Help Thunderwing with investigating the postal claim because it is unacceptable that postal workers are taking it upon themselves to repackage undamaged mail during the busiest time of year and leaving parts of your "order" missing!  I'm horrified for you both on that principle alone!   

[Midnight_Dream]

I am not taking a stance, but I am just curious - by full refund, do you mean the full $185, or $50?

He means $50.

What I don't understand is why Houston can not accept a partial refund? I mean you are going to get your money back either way and...I am just confused why paying in increments is a bad thing.

I just think you need to take a deep, calm breath and take a step back from this thread Houston and then come back to this thread to look on it with fresh eyes.