Gift Payments and Seller Fee Etiquette

[Sunshine]

I think the big issue is the word REQUIRE

I personally don't REQUIRE it, but can offer the option. I haven't actually run into anyone who requires a gift payment, but I have run into some people who REQUIRE you paying the Paypal fees.

I don't do that. Just put the option out there that a gift is always helpful to me, versus a goods, but I don't mind which method they pay me!

[Shiromisa]

I think it's great that by arena standards people are expected to treat all transactions with the same vigilance, and I know our wonderful trader support mods are dedicated to trying to find solutions to all problem transactions  

However, since arena rules and suggestions can't be enforced the same way paypal rules can, I'm not willing to take those chances. I think a lot of other buyers and sellers are in the same boat. We'd like to think we can trust all of our fellow arena members, but numerous trader support threads prove that it's not the case.  I like the level of protection paypal gives. As a buyer I won't buy from anyone who tries to force me to give up that protection, and as a seller I'm more than happy to pay the fees that give me that security.

Well said. I've noticed you have the ability to say things I mean better than I can!

[NoDivision]

I think the big issue is the word REQUIRE

I personally don't REQUIRE it, but can offer the option. I haven't actually run into anyone who requires a gift payment, but I have run into some people who REQUIRE you paying the Paypal fees.

I don't do that. Just put the option out there that a gift is always helpful to me, versus a goods, but I don't mind which method they pay me!

I have both paid and received gift payments, either with friends or from people who have sent me payment as a gift without any prompting (always a nice surprise.) I have had several sellers ask but not care if I politely said no to sending payment as a gift, and that's fine. I have also on occasion sent a few extra dollars to cover fees without being asked, just to be nice. But yes, the key word is definitely require. Anyone who requires the buyer to pay as a gift or pay the fees is more than likely not going to get my business.

[BarbedDragon]

I remember there being a sticky on the old arena, that's why I asked. I second that maybe we need to have a sticky again so people understand these requirements or guidelines a little better---So maybe a sticky, or a Etiquette sticky made or something.

My initial post was not arguing that paypal charges the fees---again---I'm a seller on Etsy and eBay, I'm fully aware and I pay them like I am supposed to. If I didn't agree I would be using MO or another way of payment.

It was more to the tune of people not POSTING on their sales threads that they require gift or paypal fees be made and hitting you with them in the end. I question them EVERY TIME and the answer I get----EVERYONE ELSE DOES IT TO ME. I don't agree with this.

The last time in encountered it the item was already in the mail without my knowledge, so I REALLY felt like I was forced to pay (from a ethical standpoint). It's a completely separate issue that has already been squelched and dealt with but I felt really backed up against the wall about it.

In similar terms YES---You will put me off from buying from you if you ask me to pay as a gift or cover your fees. I'm sorry---I will not violate my TOS in PayPal because I, myself would not ask another to do this. Unless you have something I am desperate for, I will not buy if you outline it in your buying practices unless I know you very very well---but others will and that is FINE, they are more than welcome to do so.

My main issue is with sellers NOT outlining this in their policy and then after you have asked for a shipping quote etc they spring it on you. THIS is not fair. THIS is feel is underhanded. Include your fees in the shipping quote, even add handling and package costs? FINE!!! I am actually OK with this!! But require at the end payment as a gift OR pay for your fees or no sale when there was no previous mention of it?? Nope. Not cool in my book.

I don't know, I didn't mean to start a fuss---I really did try to do a search and came up with very little as far as what was considered correct selling etiquette with gift options/paypal fees. At least it's sort of clarified for me

[hellapostalia]

I don't know, I didn't mean to start a fuss---I really did try to do a search and came up with very little as far as what was considered correct selling etiquette with gift options/paypal fees. At least it's sort of clarified for me

Oh I don't think you started a fuss. Actually, I think this is a great thread, and an important topic. (Obviously, as there are so many different opinions on the subject).

As mentioned earlier, threads like this have been hashed and rehashed over the years. BUT, there are always new arena members who want to buy or sell, and this thread may be the first time this information is presented to them.

Personally, I've been buying and selling ponies online for over 15 years but I've only been on the arena since last summer and I've found this thread helpful.

My opinion on the subject:

Buyers and sellers can do what they want. Follow paypal rules, don't follow paypal rules, build fees into your prices or not, charge a handling fee, whatever you like. BUT, there may (or may not) be consequences to your buying/selling practices... (i.e. loss of buyer protection if you pay as a gift, etc.)

I recently decided not to complete a transaction on the arena because AFTER pming back and forth for details on the items and AFTER requesting my total with shipping I was asked to send payment as a gift, but if I did not, I was required to pay the paypal fees to complete the transaction.

In the initial sales thread it was stated that the seller 'preferred' payments to be sent as a gift. It was NEVER stated that I would have to pay the fees if I opted to retain my buyer protection. That is NOT ok with me.

I didn't appreciate the seller not being upfront from the start. If they want to charge paypal fees, fine. But say it outright from the beginning, BEFORE we're three pm's into a transaction. That is just NOT ok with me.

But, it may be ok with someone else. That's fine. Someone else can buy the ponies.

On a happier note, I was thankfully able to trade for the ponies I wanted with another local collector 

[tulagirl]

I don't know, I didn't mean to start a fuss---I really did try to do a search and came up with very little as far as what was considered correct selling etiquette with gift options/paypal fees. At least it's sort of clarified for me

Oh I don't think you started a fuss. Actually, I think this is a great thread, and an important topic. (Obviously, as there are so many different opinions on the subject).

As mentioned earlier, threads like this have been hashed and rehashed over the years. BUT, there are always new arena members who want to buy or sell, and this thread may be the first time this information is presented to them.

Personally, I've been buying and selling ponies online for over 15 years but I've only been on the arena since last summer and I've found this thread helpful.

My opinion on the subject:

Buyers and sellers can do what they want. Follow paypal rules, don't follow paypal rules, build fees into your prices or not, charge a handling fee, whatever you like. BUT, there may (or may not) be consequences to your buying/selling practices... (i.e. loss of buyer protection if you pay as a gift, etc.)

I recently decided not to complete a transaction on the arena because AFTER pming back and forth for details on the items and AFTER requesting my total with shipping I was asked to send payment as a gift, but if I did not, I was required to pay the paypal fees to complete the transaction.

In the initial sales thread it was stated that the seller 'preferred' payments to be sent as a gift. It was NEVER stated that I would have to pay the fees if I opted to retain my buyer protection. That is NOT ok with me.

I didn't appreciate the seller not being upfront from the start. If they want to charge paypal fees, fine. But say it outright from the beginning, BEFORE we're three pm's into a transaction. That is just NOT ok with me.

But, it may be ok with someone else. That's fine. Someone else can buy the ponies.

On a happier note, I was thankfully able to trade for the ponies I wanted with another local collector 

The same thing happened to me recently and I declined to purchase items from the Arena seller and have since found them locally as well.  In fact for the most part I am sort of done trying to buy ponies and merchandise here on the Arena due to this whole, "pay my fees, pay as a gift thing."  Its certainly not every seller.

[kitkatvintage]

I hope this isn't straying too far off topic, but I have another question/thought about the "who pays the fees" issue:

Would it be justified to include that information in the feedback we leave? For example "good communication, fast shipping, nice pony, but the seller required I pay the fees/send as gift & did not mention this at the beginning of the sale"

I've often wanted to leave that sort of feedback, but thus far I have not because I know even the slightest negative comment in an otherwise positive feedback can send people into full retaliation mode.

So often I see people saying they agreed to pay the fees because a buyer has a lot of good feedback. A lot of times I think that a high number of feedback just means that person has had a lot of transactions. How many times do we leave good feedback when we aren't 100% happy? If I saw comments in feedback that the seller repeatedly tried to sneak fees in on buyers, I would be a lot less likely to buy from them no matter what their total feedback score was.

[CupidStrikes]

I hope this isn't straying too far off topic, but I have another question/thought about the "who pays the fees" issue:

Would it be justified to include that information in the feedback we leave? For example "good communication, fast shipping, nice pony, but the seller required I pay the fees/send as gift & did not mention this at the beginning of the sale"

I've often wanted to leave that sort of feedback, but thus far I have not because I know even the slightest negative comment in an otherwise positive feedback can send people into full retaliation mode.

So often I see people saying they agreed to pay the fees because a buyer has a lot of good feedback. A lot of times I think that a high number of feedback just means that person has had a lot of transactions. How many times do we leave good feedback when we aren't 100% happy? If I saw comments in feedback that the seller repeatedly tried to sneak fees in on buyers, I would be a lot less likely to buy from them no matter what their total feedback score was.

I'd say yes you would be totally justified in leaving that kind of feedback as it's honest. If the seller gets defensive because they didn't want you to say that then...they shouldn't conduct their sales that way
I really hate it when sellers suddenly tack on fees after you've seen the item + shipping price and agreed to purchase =/ I agreed to purchase it at that price, not the new higher one >(

[hellapostalia]

I hope this isn't straying too far off topic, but I have another question/thought about the "who pays the fees" issue:

Would it be justified to include that information in the feedback we leave? For example "good communication, fast shipping, nice pony, but the seller required I pay the fees/send as gift & did not mention this at the beginning of the sale"

I've often wanted to leave that sort of feedback, but thus far I have not because I know even the slightest negative comment in an otherwise positive feedback can send people into full retaliation mode.

So often I see people saying they agreed to pay the fees because a buyer has a lot of good feedback. A lot of times I think that a high number of feedback just means that person has had a lot of transactions. How many times do we leave good feedback when we aren't 100% happy? If I saw comments in feedback that the seller repeatedly tried to sneak fees in on buyers, I would be a lot less likely to buy from them no matter what their total feedback score was.

I'd say yes you would be totally justified in leaving that kind of feedback as it's honest. If the seller gets defensive because they didn't want you to say that then...they shouldn't conduct their sales that way
I really hate it when sellers suddenly tack on fees after you've seen the item + shipping price and agreed to purchase =/ I agreed to purchase it at that price, not the new higher one >(

I agree with all of this. I wonder if it would be possible to require an additional step when leaving feedback for a transaction.

A mandatory poll for the buyer with four options.

1. Seller paid paypal fees.
2. Buyer paid paypal fees.
3. Buyer send paypal as a gift.
4. Paypal was not used in this transaction.

Just boxes to check off, choose one. No emotion, just a statement of fact, so buyers know what they're getting into.

A similar poll could be required of sellers, rating their experience with a buyer when it comes to payment.

1. Buyer paid within 24 hours.
2. Buyer paid within 72 hours.
3. A payment plan was used.
4. Payment took longer than a week.

I would think twice about dealing with someone (even if they had 100% positive feedback) if every transaction as a buyer had them taking more than a week to pay, OR every transaction as a seller they were making the buyer pay the paypal fees.

I don't know if this is even possible, or if the servers could handle it, but it would be nice as this information is usually never included in feedback descriptions.

I need more coffee.


 

[lovesbabysquirmy]

I would love it if people mentioned the fee payment in their feedback.  It's certainly not something I want to bother with from a seller.  And I don't want to be in the midst of a sale and becoming emotionally attached and THEN being informed of the fees.  That's like paying for groceries and then the manager comes out and says, "More money or you can't have the food."  Not to mention I have an extremely limited amount of money to spend on ponies - if I have the $2.99, I have two dollars and ninety-nine cents.  I do NOT have $3.36.

[BarbedDragon]

I would love it if people mentioned the fee payment in their feedback.  It's certainly not something I want to bother with from a seller.  And I don't want to be in the midst of a sale and becoming emotionally attached and THEN being informed of the fees.  That's like paying for groceries and then the manager comes out and says, "More money or you can't have the food."  Not to mention I have an extremely limited amount of money to spend on ponies - if I have the $2.99, I have two dollars and ninety-nine cents.  I do NOT have $3.36.

Exactly my situation. I don't have a lot of extra cash this time of year and I already am doing math in my head before I contact the seller. :/

[MikeysGrrrl]

That just happened to me 4 days ago. I spent 3 days of communicating with a seller about extra pics, condition, various shipping prices etc... only to be told in the message asking for payment that they want me to pay their fees. I went back to their thread to see if it was stated anywhere there, nope.

So I backed out of the sale. I mean I also have to think about converting whatever funds to Canadian which also jacks up the price

It would be nice if perhaps sellers were encouraged/required to state whether or not they expect paypal fees to be paid. That way you know before contacting them and there are no surprises.

For me $1-$2 may be the difference between being able to purchase or having to hold off. That's just a fact of life when you're on a tight budget. I don't think that makes me cheap or selfish.

[Skeen]

I don't think that makes me cheap or selfish.

It certainly doesn't.    If you spent that much time communicating about the sale, the seller should have mentioned they wanted you to pay the fees.  I don't blame you for backing out.  I would have too. 

[partypony566]

The thing is, whether it's right or wrong to ask a buyer to pay fees, if it's that much of a budget blower to factor in an extra $0.23 for example, I mean if money is that tight, surely it's best not to buy ponies at all for the time being and spend the money on food?

[bluerose9978]

The thing is, whether it's right or wrong to ask a buyer to pay fees, if it's that much of a budget blower to factor in an extra $0.23 for example, I mean if money is that tight, surely it's best not to buy ponies at all for the time being and spend the money on food?

You can say the same thing for the seller... If it's that big of a deal for the seller, maybe they should have just factored in that extra $0.23 in the pony cost in the first place, don't you think? Then maybe it wouldn't have come as a surprise for the buyer.