Gift Payments and Seller Fee Etiquette

[kitkatvintage]

Reading through this again now that I'm home from work, and this jumped out at me...

However, I honestly get annoyed when I spend over $100 and have someone ask me for another $3 for fees AFTER I pay. Most often, if I really want the item, I will just send extra for the fees, rather than paying as a gift.

Totally agreed!! Nothing annoys me more than having a seller ask me to cover fees on a high value item. If I'm paying $300 (just as an example) for a super rare pony, I would think the seller has taken the fee amount into account with their price. Asking for another 3% of the total seems ridiculous to me. 

[steffers29madds]

I have been incredibly lucky in that almost every purchase I have made on the arena has been positive. Having said that the one and only time I sent payment as a gift was to a seller who had lots of absolutely perfect feedback and I got screwed. Sent my $30 plus for a lot of Stephen Cosgrove books that were never sent and the seller went MIA. I learned my lesson and havent done it since.

Like others before me Im always a bit taken aback when asked to pay the seller's fees and have done it but usually wont buy again from them. At the end of the day though it was my choice to pay even if I was annoyed.

[MikeysGrrrl]

I'm not saying I've had bad experiences with a seller based on who pays the fees or whether or not I pay using the gift option.

I just prefer that when it comes to selling me something, the seller sends an invoice to me especially if they want me to pay the fees (my math sucks), that way I can pay properly and we're both protected.

I've only had 1 negative transaction on the arena, luckily the seller invoiced me so I was covered, my seller also went MIA literally the day I paid and my item never arrived, so I had to open a paypal dispute to get my money back.

That transaction hasn't stopped me from buying or trading with other members in the slightest.

[Libelle]

I've had most sellers asking for payment as a gift. I wasn't happy about it at all, but I thought it was Arena policy to mark payments as gifts. Now I feel taken advantage of. Lesson learned, I will avoid such sellers in the future.

[tulagirl]

I don't know if anyone has posted this information but hopefully not.  If you read the paypal user agreement in section 4.6 of Receiving Money it makes it quite clear that you are not allowed to ask for a gift payment for goods as well as not allowed to charge for your fees as they see this as a surcharge.  When all of us agree to the user agreement we are in fact saying we will follow that rule/policy.  It is because of this policy alone, I will not violate their user agreement to accommodate a seller nor will I require such an action from a buyer.  I lose out sometimes, but I have always felt following the rules is the way to go.

So, there really are no "special circumstances" in which asking a buyer to do these things is okay in paypal's eyes.  When we sell anything in this world we have to pay our fees and taxes. That is part of being a good citizen. If a buyer wishes to add a little extra money to cover a seller's fees that is perfectly okay as long as they were never asked to do so.  There is no violation in in that.

It is quite possible that a lot of sellers never read the user agreement and are not aware this is a violation of policy. 

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#4

[Navi]

I always feel weird when someone asks me to send money as a gift, and would also feel weird asking someone to pay me as a gift. Fees are just part of using Paypal :\

[MiRaja]

I think it's really easy to say 'oh, fees are just part of using PayPal,' but sellers here are stuck between a rock and a hard place.  If I raise my prices to actually make some money on my ponies, no one will buy from me.  I'm only selling and trading to thin my herd, but there are those here who do attempt to make a living from it or augment their finances.  I kind of find it ridiculous how much buyers are making a fuss of things for paying what is usually at most $1. 

It does not add up for the buyer, but it can make a small dent in the costs of supplies and the PayPal fees.  I am just so tired, and this is not in the least just the pony community in the least, but everything, of people being so darned cheap.  This is the same sort of argument I hear on people not wanting to pay auto gratuities in restaurants and expect their server to pay for them to eat out in their tip outs at the end of the night.  No, sellers shouldn't be charging or asking for more after the first transaction, but I haven't seen that.  Most everyone charges something like a dollar per sale whether it's one or five ponies.  Trust me when I say there is no one profitting in selling by selling one pony at a time.  Which is why I refuse to do single sales.  I would be losing money versus maybe breaking even.

 Honestly, I think most of the sellers here are doing everyone a favor in selling.  Unless you have a box of mimics or vennies, no one here is making a lot of money.  I sell mine or trade mine to make a little fun money.  I've made maybe $30 in a month.  I can make $30 an hour at my job.  So seriously?  No.  There are lots of businesses that charge a service fee, pony sellers are allowed to.  As that goes, I am ambivalent about the gift option.  If my seller has good feedback, there's no bother to me.  No one here on the arena is going to tarnish their years of building feedback for a few dollars.  No.

[Shiromisa]

No one is saying you have to lose money on a transaction. All people are saying is, if you want the fees covered, build it into the cost of the pony. It's a simple percentage, easily done. If pricing things a little higher makes people buy from someone else, that's how it goes, I'm sorry. They'd have to spend more on your pony whether you build it into the price or ask for the fee outright, just one violates paypal's TOS, and the other doesn't.

[spottedslug]

I figure fees into the price of the item when selling. I never ask people to send as a gift but many do, and it is greatly appreciated. I send as a gift unless I'm told NOT to.

Also when I signed up for paypal there were not the options there are today, so my user agreement looked somewhat different, I believe. Doesn't matter much now since I no longer have my own paypal account and won't touch ebay with a ten foot pole.

[MiRaja]

No one is saying you have to lose money on a transaction. All people are saying is, if you want the fees covered, build it into the cost of the pony. It's a simple percentage, easily done. If pricing things a little higher makes people buy from someone else, that's how it goes, I'm sorry. They'd have to spend more on your pony whether you build it into the price or ask for the fee outright, just one violates paypal's TOS, and the other doesn't.

I don't think you're understanding. 

If I'm trading, I don't need to inflate the price of my ponies, and besides, that's not fair to my trade partner who may or may not be inflating their costs.  Secondly, I cannot predict how many ponies a person is going to buy.  What no one seems to get that it is CHEAPER if we sellers charge ONE FLAT DOLLAR( and I don't even do that! I round up to the nearest .50c on the dollar.  Is your shipping $3.43?  Your cost is ponies plus + $3.50.  $3.67? Ponies plus $4. ) per TRANSACTION versus per pony. 

Think of it as an incentive, in all actuality.  You save by buying more ponies. 

If I need to do the math, here we go. 

You buy 5 ponies from me.  I have  inflated my costs by $1 on each pony.  We'll keep it easy and say each pony is worth $5.  But I'm charging $6.  Your shipping is $4.  You pay $34. 

Now, you buy from a seller who doesn't inflate their pony costs, but they charge $1 per transaction.  You buy 5 ponies again.  And they're each $5, again, just for a parallel.  Your shipping is again $4.  You pay $29.  You actually save $5.  Heck, you could buy 6 ponies for the price of 5.

Honestly, I do not care to inflate the prices of my ponies, because it'll make it even harder for me to sell.  Both because people will be put off on my prices ( and would be the same individuals here complaining about fee charges, asking me to 'cut them a deal,' ) and also because people would not want to justify buying several ponies versus one.

For me, keeping my prices down and charging a very small rounding up on shipping costs, is more convenient.  People are happier to buy more ponies at a time for me.  I have less running, I have less packaging costs and the buyer really saves.

[MikeysGrrrl]

I think that people are taking this thread far too personally. No one is being attacked here. It all started with a simple question.

Yes most members on the arena aren't trying to make a living selling ponies, and yes you probably make very little if anything on a sale. However there are people who make quite a bit off their sales. But that's neither here nor there.

The fact is that I don't feel like I'm cheap just because I think it should be the sellers responsibility to pay the fees. To be honest 9/10 times, I usually send the payment as a gift, which means that I'm covering the fees, whilst leaving myself unprotected if the shipment gets lost or the seller goes MIA.

I have ponies for sale in the customs thread, if someone chooses to buy from me, I will be the one that pays the fees, I wouldn't want the buyer to do it, besides I'm used to it, since I sell on ebay all the time. It really doesn't matter to me if I have to shell out an extra $1. But that's my opinion about how I would handle it if I was the one selling.

Everyone here is different, we all think differently.

[lovesbabysquirmy]

I'm truly confused here... why would Paypal even come into play with trades? 

And it's a service fee for being able to accept the convenience of Paypal... most banks do NOT have affordable transfer fees.  Either you're making a living from the small business, and should be building it into your prices, or it's an occasional few cents to be able to receive money from anywhere in the world and have global exposure to your sales.  Try advertising on your local sales site with Ebay prices and see how many responses you get.  It's vastly different when a buyer can type in a phrase or word and buy from somewhere, anywhere on the planet. 

[lilgryphon]

It has been a very long time since I've bought or sold on the Arena, but I have to say, if it's becoming common practice to ask the buyer to pay SELLER'S fees I would be very put off with that seller - same with being asked to send my payment as a gift.

Firstly, as a buyer you are a customer, and I can't think of any business that would ask you to pay their fees for spending money there. You build it into your prices, as others have stated. Why do you think so many sellers on eBay offer 'free' shipping? It is because if their item costs $14 VS someone that sells their item for $10 + $4 the buyer will opt for the 'free' option every time. Its ingrained in us, we want free stuff and we're more likely to use you...and if you feel like you are loosing money buy selling perhaps you should save your extras and baits for meets where none of this comes into play.

Secondly, lets be honest here, we can all argue over how much PayPal and eBay's fees are and whether or not they are excessive, but your transactions as a buyer are almost 100% protected - especially if your item doesn't arrive. Please don't throw that protection away by abusing a gift option that is only supposed to be used for that purpose.

[partypony566]

I've looked at around 15 sales threads today, about 6 of them say you either have to pay the fees or pay by gift.

[Diamond]

Just my two cents, I do ask for fees to be covered if I am picking something up for you and charging you cost.  I do not ask for fees on any items I am selling, I figure that into my cost of selling it.  I do not ask for gift payments unless I am shipping international first class AND it is something I am pick up for you at cost.  I have had folks send me money as gift when I have not asked for it and that is fine.  I rarely send as gift unless it is someone I know, I normally add a little extra WITH OUT being asked to cover the pay pal fees.  But if I see someone asking for em, I will not usually buy from em.  It is the cost of doing business on the internet.

My user agreements look totally different as I have had my pay pal accounts since the beginning.

It is a totally judgement call, and no one is right or wrong in doing it.  BUT you are not covered and have no real recourse if something you are buying goes missing, so think twice before doing it. 

I've looked at around 15 sales threads today, about 6 of them say you either have to pay the fees or pay by gift.

Then those are folks I am not buying from.