a problem with an arena member please i need your help

[Sunshine]

Just read this whole thing... I too agree that Snow doesn't deserve negative feedback... her hands are tied, seriously, the middle man can't solve problems on one end or the other... if ANYTHING, a neutral explaining her position as middle man... but a negative? ...I really don't think she did anything wrong here...

[Sebby6]

I disagree with the people who says that Snow "shouldn't be held responsible as she is just the middle man" Well who should then? I'm sorry but if you help a friend sell something then you also agree to all the hassle that could potentially come out of the sale.
Not like the friend can do much.

HOWEVER. Never in a million years would I try and claim my money back from a seller who could provide a tracking number. If the parcel is sent, then it is my problem. Period.
Seller shouldn't be out their pony/money.
I appreciate Ebay says differently, but this is not Ebay and we are quick enough to disagree with their policies when they are not in our favour.

Call the French postal system and give them hell. Give your local post office hell. You have the proof the they've lost the parcel, so make them pay up.

[shelti]

I disagree with the people who says that Snow "shouldn't be held responsible as she is just the middle man" Well who should then? I'm sorry but if you help a friend sell something then you also agree to all the hassle that could potentially come out of the sale.

I agree with Sebby6, if someone is considering taking on  a 3rd party Transaction for a friend, then they are responsible for the outcome. 
I think insep.lovebirds learned a valuable lesson, never send a payment as a personal option.
 File for your funds before the 45 days is up and then if the transaction completes make it good with the seller.
When it comes to expensive Items it is best to protect yourself

[Silversnow]

Just to clearify, yet again, I didn't get the payments (installments) as gifts. I did have to pay all those fees, so yes, those 45 days could have been "used".

[Sebby6]

I disagree with the people who says that Snow "shouldn't be held responsible as she is just the middle man" Well who should then? I'm sorry but if you help a friend sell something then you also agree to all the hassle that could potentially come out of the sale.

I agree with Sebby6, if someone is considering taking on  a 3rd party Transaction for a friend, then they are responsible for the outcome. 
I think insep.lovebirds learned a valuable lesson, never send a payment as a personal option.
 File for your funds before the 45 days is up and then if the transaction completes make it good with the seller.
When it comes to expensive Items it is best to protect yourself

Protect yourself from what though?  If you sold a $400 pony and sent it tracked would you expect to refund it if it didn't make it?

[ponylady]

Where the payments sent as a gift or not?

[shelti]

Where the payments sent as a gift or not?

I disagree with the people who says that Snow "shouldn't be held responsible as she is just the middle man" Well who should then? I'm sorry but if you help a friend sell something then you also agree to all the hassle that could potentially come out of the sale.

I agree with Sebby6, if someone is considering taking on  a 3rd party Transaction for a friend, then they are responsible for the outcome. 
I think insep.lovebirds learned a valuable lesson, never send a payment as a personal option.
 File for your funds before the 45 days is up and then if the transaction completes make it good with the seller.
When it comes to expensive Items it is best to protect yourself

Protect yourself from what though?  If you sold a $400 pony and sent it tracked would you expect to refund it if it didn't make it?

Personally, I have shared the cost of a pony that was lost before, we were both out.  The  US Postal Service priority shipping now covers for damage, loss, or theft up to a certain value and if it's not for the full value I put the extra on it at my expense.  But to be Honest I now do offer two shipping options with a disclaimer so if a buyer wants an item shipped unprotected there is a clear understanding of responsibility.

Post Merge: May 13, 2013, 11:09:49 AM

Where the payments sent as a gift or not?

Insepid felt she did send as a gift option as she stated in her first post.
In conversations with her some time when this started to become a problem she expressed her frustration with not being able to file for the pay pal buyer protection  because of this. 
Hopefully she can shed some light on that.

[Icecrystalline]

This is really sad, but I do completely agree with Sebby6 and Shelti. Using a middle man isn't always best, it's not fair for the middle man that they get blamed, but again, it is NOT fair for the buyer either. I think the seller should make this right personally, go half and half pershaps, but something needs doing rather than just discussing this. Contact the PO definitely!

[Mkia]

I don't think it was right to leave negative feedback for Silversnow.  It isn't her pony, it isn't her money, and if the person whose money it is won't give a refund, what is Silversnow supposed to do about it?  Why should she, who did everything right here, be out 400 Euros for a pony that isn't even hers?

Regardless of it being her pony...she was the seller in this situation. So she still takes responsibility when things go wrong. She agreed to that when she agreed to sell the pony for her friend.

That being said, it's unfortunate that this situation happened. I think to be fair, the seller should refund half the payment. Split it in the middle that way no one is out the full 400 eur. And if the pony ever does arrive, the buyer should make it right and give the partial refund back.

[PitterPatter]

I had an item from Australia once that was really quick to arrive in the UK (like, 4 days or something) but then did nothing for two weeks!

In this case the seller was very good in contacting the PO here and in AUS to find out any information.

Perhaps Snow could send an email to the French postal system. I'm sure they will have translators since they operate with international packages. If not perhaps a French speaker could translate something for her since it should come from her as the sender of the item. It may be that given them more direct contact/poke/kick up the bum () might prompt them to bother to look for the package properly in the sorting office in Paris.

And, as was said earlier, then Negative feedback can be revised when an agreement if reached between the two. Because I do agree as the seller - third party or otherwise - it comes down to her as an agent to try and reach an agreement between the owner and buyer of the pony

[Silversnow]

Again, if the payments were sent as gift, I DID NOT receive them as gift. I indeed asked for it at the beginning, but did not get a single installment as a gift. I paid over 35 $ fee for getting her payments. Even if that was the case, payments were done in more than 45 days, so only one of the installments could have fullfilled the claim requirements.

Unfortunately, PitterPatter, I cannot contact French postal system, that's up to Insep. I can only make the claim, which I did, to the Spanish postal system, and they have said that since the package is not even in Spanish country, they can't do anything else. I will scan the document I got, and the refund of 43 € something they are issuing me.

So, yes, I am the seller. I was the one who committed to this. Right. I did all in my power. The pony arrived to destination. It's in Paris. Probably much closer to Insep than we know. And it left Spain in 3 days.

I even sent the pony "express" on my own expense, -not even at my friends expense- so that Insep wouldn't have to wait one more week for that. -I don't mind that, despite on what has happened-. But yet again, that was because I just wanted to make her happy when she got the pony earlier. Who would have known all this would happen.

I sent it tracked, signed for. I was not asked to ensure this pony at the price she was. That's why I get a refund from the post office of 40 something, and not more.

I have called (telephone call, no WhatsApp or messages that could be missunderstood) my friend, and she will refund this amount to Insep.

[tulagirl]

I am very torn on my opinion in this situation. I can see both sides.  A thid party sale seems to put both the buyer and the seller at a disadvantage.  Its unfair for a buyer to not have a refund because someone else is involved and, its not a sellers responsibility to refund because the postal service lost something.

So, in my opinion, its quite important to be 100% accurate on a customs form, be willing to pay for insurance on your whole item, pay your vat/customs fees so if something goes missing you are going to get that money back.  You may think you are saving money by not doing this step, but not only is it against the law to not declare the accurate price paid/value on a customs form...look what has happened now as this pony was seriously under insured.  I cant help but feel that these requirements need to be made by both buyer and sellers.  It would be good if the buyer says, "I must have this fully insured, sent with tracking, list the full insured amount and value on my customs form and insurance, please send this item registered."  Its up to a buyer to make sure a seller does not get by with this, "send it as a gift thing."  I realize that is not what happened here but it is not fair to any buyer to send a payment as a gift and it should not be required by any seller.   Would it not be better if a seller asked a buyer about services to insure a good delivery?  It doesn't seem fair they suffer for not asking for a certain service. 

If you know this is a third party purchase,  maybe the seller should keep the money until the item has proven to be delivered and when all is good then send the money to your original owner.  I realize that puts the other person at a disadvantage should something get lost, but not really...if you do the right thing with forms then the insurance money goes to the original owner.

So, to me...there are two very strong sides to this and no one way is the right way on this deal.  I feel for both of you, you both have a loss issue to deal with and its really sad this has gone this way.

I probably would have eaten half the loss, but thats just me.

Maybe my response will not be popular and its certainly not meant to hurt anyone's feelings.  As you see I can't take any sides as I feel the responsibility for this is 50/50.  No side can be taken...as it was mistakes on both sides.   

 
I think its better to be 100% accurate on your forms.  There is just no other way to do things.  If a box is under valued insurance/customs wise its not good for either person involved.

I am sorry for both of you.  Hugs

The buyer does have the right to request a refund and to leave the feedback they feel reflects their experience.  This was a lot of money to lose and it would depend on how the whole transaction went down as to what deserved feedback should be.

This was updated for typos, reword to shorten and soften comments.  Also to add the feedback thoughts instead of making a new post.

[Mkia]

Well said tulagirl

[tulagirl]

Where the payments sent as a gift or not?

Apparently the buyer feels they were sent as a gift but the seller says no as she paid fees on the transaction.  The thing is the buyer insists it was sent as a gift. Who knows.No one has proved this.

[FantasticFirefly]

I feel so badly for everyone involved. I'm trying to understand what happened though, as someone who has sold items on behalf of friends I may have imput but I don't know if I understand exactly what happened in the situation here.

1- the seller has contacted their postal service in Spain, has received the insurance money of 43 €. Spain's postal service has told the seller that since the package has left Spain and is IN the destination country there is nothing further they can do.

2- seller has proof of shipping with tracking. Tracking shows the package being in Paris (and the seller even upgraded the shipping to be faster at her expense)

3- the buyer sent over the total owed broken up into part payments. The buyer sent over the money using the gift option, however it was NOT received as a gift and the seller was charged paypal fees anyway.

my questions,
For the seller:
Have you forwarded a scan of the shipping receipt/documents to help your buyer file a claim through France's postal service?

Was 43 € all the pony was insured for? Was the pony insured at all? If yes, how much insurance coverage was purchased and why?

For the buyer:
Have you reported this package as lost through your postal service? You should be able to, as the tracking does show it being in your country before vanishing. I am unsure of how France's system works, but in many places a recipient can contact thier postal service and attempt a trace to locate and find parcels gone astray. If you don't have scans of all the receipts and paperwork, I'd ask for those and keep calling your postal service until you find someone at least willing to help you locate your parcel!