MLP and gender roles

[Stuntmang]

(Rainbows are considered girly, too...I wonder why they took it away--thanks a lot, G3s  : P  lol)

Actually rainbows are considered something else now.

Us gay people don't have a monopoly on rainbows, you know.

[Opalescence]

Yes, those belong rightfully to the Leprechauns

[Sunset]

Yes, those belong rightfully to the Leprechauns

 

[Cool.Breeze]

(Rainbows are considered girly, too...I wonder why they took it away--thanks a lot, G3s  : P  lol)

Actually rainbows are considered something else now.

Us gay people don't have a monopoly on rainbows, you know.

LOL!! couldn't have said it better myself xD

[ZennaBug]

You know, I was super into pink and glitter and girly stuff until I started getting made fun of for being "too girly," when I totally denounced the color pink until fairly recently.  What's sad is that there are people telling little girls they CAN'T like pink because it's stereotypical.  Let the little girls have their pink and their sparkles and their ponies.  It doesn't mean that ONLY little girls can like those things, it's just that a lot of them genuinely do.  And it's something they decided on their own.

If a little boy wants to buy ponies and dolls or a girl wants Hot Wheels, that's fine too.  It's not the TOYS that should be gender neutral (since most children gravitate towards a certain type of toy on their own), it's parents who should allow their children to play with the toys they like, regardless of the packaging color.

Hello and great thread!  You brought up Rescue from Midnight Castle in your initial post.  I think that special, and Katrina, and the cartoon series, and then anything that followed need to be considered separately.  They were created at different times and to some degree by different writers.  I think Rescue did the best job of going against the grain. 

If you think about what one would *expect* a My Little Pony adventure to be about (most people would think of what G3 cartoons typically offered--tea parties, butterfly chases, etc.), Rescue is completely out of the blue.  It is really much more like a He-Man cartoon and is quite dark.  Not only did the creators of Rescue create a world in which a group of females could handle very dark forces, but they assumed their audience--of young girls--could also handle it. 

As for the critique of the ponies/Megan needing men to ultimately save them (particularly the Moochick), I say bah humbug!   The Moochick is completely passive.  Apparently he was content to let the Night That Never Ends just happen.  Scorpan is emasculated through most of the show.  He also gives up easily--"all . . . is lost . . ." whereas the ponies ultimately duke it out w/ Tirac.  The ponies in Rescue are VERY physical--they run, jump, kick, etc.!

Rescue I think also does a good job of making the ponies a unified front.  In Katrina, some of the ponies are rather mean at the beginning.  Yes this moved the plot along, but I like MLP better when it's about female characters working as a team and solving problems.  This eventually happens in Katrina, but only towards the end, and then it culminates in a fashion show--where they actually invite a character, who, until earlier that evening, was a *very evil cat creature* into Dream Castle!  Don't get me started on that.  I guess fashion and forgiveness go hand in hand, ha ha!

 

I agree with this.  If you're looking to find sexism in a cartoon, you will always be able to find it.  But the G1 cartoon (especially Rescue) was pretty progressive for its time.  If you look at even today's girl cartoons, they are rarely quite so dark, because little girls aren't "supposed to" like scary things.  And I think that FiM does a very good job of introducing different personality types rather than just have the normal one-dimensional female characters.  I can't speak much about G2 or G3, since I'm not really familiar with their cartoons, but at least G1 and G4 I think were/are great shows for kids!  And it's nice to actually see a girl's show be cool and relevant.

[Opalescence]

Keep in mind that bronies are a fandom that is ridiculously into overanalyzing or bending interpretations or just making stuff up so it'll make sense the way they want it.
If they want something to be something it isn't, then there will be no effort spared until everyone submits to it.

[NoDivision]

Keep in mind that bronies are a fandom that is ridiculously into overanalyzing or bending interpretations or just making stuff up so it'll make sense the way they want it.
If they want something to be something it isn't, then there will be no effort spared until everyone submits to it.

Never was such a true statement made.

[Al-1701]

There's something to consider when comparing G1 to FiM.  MLP and Friends had to showcase all the ponies regularly while FiM can concentrate on six ponies almost exclusively.  FiM has more of an opportunity to flesh out this set of characters and the different aspects of the personality and lives.  Many ponies in the original series got only few episodes of major screentime making delving into the different layers of their personality difficult.

G1 also suffered from the attitudes of whoever happened to be writing.  Michael Reaves and Linda Wolverton wrote the series at its best.  However, many of the worst episodes were written by writers brought over from Transformers and G.I. Joe.  David Wise was insane, Barbra Petty cruised on Rule of Creepy with little else, the Hill's gave us the episode that shall not be named.  Friendship is Magic is blessed with group of brilliant writers (oh how I wish to be one) who understand not just the concept of the show, but the spirit of the show.

[Jenn77]

You know, I was super into pink and glitter and girly stuff until I started getting made fun of for being "too girly," when I totally denounced the color pink until fairly recently.  What's sad is that there are people telling little girls they CAN'T like pink because it's stereotypical.  Let the little girls have their pink and their sparkles and their ponies.  It doesn't mean that ONLY little girls can like those things, it's just that a lot of them genuinely do.  And it's something they decided on their own.

If a little boy wants to buy ponies and dolls or a girl wants Hot Wheels, that's fine too.  It's not the TOYS that should be gender neutral (since most children gravitate towards a certain type of toy on their own), it's parents who should allow their children to play with the toys they like, regardless of the packaging color.

 I second this.. I am glad that my parents where the way they where when I was growing up. I was into Rainbow Brite,Jem, My little pony,He-man, Thundercats Jayce and the wheel warriors,the list goes on and on,and when my cousins came down they brought their G.I. Joe's and transformers it was a madd house lol, but my parents never batted an eye or said anything just so long that I took care of my things (which I was a weird kid and couldn't tolerate anyone being to rough with my toys like marking on them or scratching the paint off lol) I was I guess what you would call a girly tomboy lol. I did have friends that where very girly but still it wasn't considered a big deal. It felt like to me at the time that the parents where like,well what ever makes them happy. At least that it the way is ways with the ones I knew. I do feel for kids though with parents that say you can't have that, your a girl or your a boy. Ugh its very sad I feel very fortunate to have the parents that I do.

[Opalescence]

Friendship is Magic is blessed with group of brilliant writers (oh how I wish to be one) who understand not just the concept of the show, but the spirit of the show.

Yet some of them seem to struggle to understand certain characters.
*cough* Applejack *cough*

[Dragonflitter]

If you think about what one would *expect* a My Little Pony adventure to be about (most people would think of what G3 cartoons typically offered--tea parties, butterfly chases, etc.), Rescue is completely out of the blue.  It is really much more like a He-Man cartoon and is quite dark.  Not only did the creators of Rescue create a world in which a group of females could handle very dark forces, but they assumed their audience--of young girls--could also handle it. 

As for the critique of the ponies/Megan needing men to ultimately save them (particularly the Moochick), I say bah humbug!   The Moochick is completely passive.  Apparently he was content to let the Night That Never Ends just happen.  Scorpan is emasculated through most of the show.  He also gives up easily--"all . . . is lost . . ." whereas the ponies ultimately duke it out w/ Tirac.  The ponies in Rescue are VERY physical--they run, jump, kick, etc.!

I agree! For a show that was created specifically to sell girl toys, it does take some daring leaps! There's a real sense of menace and danger with Tirac and his forces, and TONS of action scenes throughout the special.

I don't see the Moochick as fulfilling the stereotypical "man saving the day" role. Rather, he fulfills a different--but just as overdone--stereotype: the wise old man. Tons of different stories utilize this character role--even Lord of the Rings has a 'wise old man' character come in to provide exposition and explain backstory when the plot needs it. But in the end it's up to the pony girls to get to Tirac's castle and save the day! They not only use their brains, they use their brawn too. All in all, Firefly's Adventure was a pretty awesome special. No wonder they put it out on VHS with a toy pony--which is common today (with dvd's I mean) but back then it was pretty daring for Hasbro to do! Not everyone had a VHS tape player back then, so they were taking a risk limiting their demographic with that particular toy set.

[Crowning_Glory13]

So fun of a topic, and I am glad everyone is being respectful of everyone's ideas. I have a hard time with gender discussions because my ideas tend to be a stereotype and then the conversation is how can we change me. As a little kid I watched the Rescue movie all the time. I could quote it word for word...so it started my love of ponies...I never did start to see the series until its short stint on Disney. I was also a Heman fan...I was going to marry Heman...he would have battle cat and I was to have Moondancer and we would save the world:) Sadly the only Heman toys I had was the ones I snagged from my brother:( Parents didnt let me go for the boy toys even though I gravitated to them...except the ponies:) I was not much into dolls or cabbage patches. I think if parents just gave their kids freedom and positive affirmation as to their toy choices...I think stereotypes could improve. They will always be there no matter what...it how we as humans relate to thing in communication.

I think something that would help is the depiction of boys and girls in commercials. Having a view of boys and girls playing together would be awesome:) I would like to see the friends be more girl and boy friendly...Pony Tales started with having boys be more friends...but there was still that love interest...I loved the idea about a boy cutie mark crusaders...just think of the stories one could come up with that alone...

Fim has been ground breaking into the fact that its created a boy and girl world...boy and girls watch it. That vary rarely happens. I remember a lot of boy cartoons that I loved and hated and same with girls. So having a girl directed show gaining a male audience is a ground breaking event:)

[Malicieuse]

Friendship is Magic is blessed with group of brilliant writers (oh how I wish to be one) who understand not just the concept of the show, but the spirit of the show.

Yet some of them seem to struggle to understand certain characters.
*cough* Applejack *cough*

I think the writing on FIM is actually pretty overrated. Don't get me wrong, it's good/decent in general but i don't see what makes it oh so amazing. Especially the character development. I always hear people claim it is so great. To me it seems the characters often get bend to fit into a certain script and i feel like the characters are actually pretty stereotypical. The tomboy, the bookworm, the shy one, the "random" one...Nothing wrong with that, they are fun characters. I just don't see what makes them so much more amazing than a lot of other toons out there. I personally wouldn't re-watch a lot of the episodes...Not sure if i'm the only one. I miss the more adventurous G1 cartoon and i actually enjoyed how the G1 cartoon had different ponies in different episodes.

[Bag of Magic Food]

G1 also suffered from the attitudes of whoever happened to be writing.  Michael Reaves and Linda Wolverton wrote the series at its best.  However, many of the worst episodes were written by writers brought over from Transformers and G.I. Joe.  David Wise was insane, Barbra Petty cruised on Rule of Creepy with little else, the Hill's gave us the episode that shall not be named.

I have to confess, I have a certain fondness for David Wise's particular brand of insanity.   

[Al-1701]

His episodes are admitted enjoyable on some level.  However, it's not for the quality of writing.  It's like how Battlehsip was an enjoyable movie, but not a good movie.

To give you an idea of how much the original My Little Pony special pushed the envelope, compare it to the Charmkins.  Same writer.  Same company.  Same time.  But oh how they're different?  Charmkins had a whole song on how nasty the main villain was and what nasty things he would do without saying what he would do.  Tirac not only turns ponies into mutant hellbeasts by engulfing them in flame, but just comes right out and says he better get his fourth pony of he'll behead a baby dragon who's his own minion to vent his frustration.  My Little Pony had a genuine sense of danger and there were real stakes in the game.  You didn't get that from other girl shows except Jem which was meant for older girls.