Hesitations about Putting Your Hoof Down

[Snapdragon]

Huh, I thought all topics about Pony were to be locked? Interesting that this one's survived so long.

That said, I'm glad that Hasbro is moving in a more sensitive direction, since it's clear that by all of the wails of "PC is the very worst" that the message of 'be kind to others' hasn't gotten through yet. Sad, sad, sad.

[Malicieuse]

I'm not sure what the problem is or how this could be compared to the Pony/Ditzy drama.
Fluttershy has been assertive in the past. Heck, she has been a bit of a crazy jerk in the past.
This is probably one of those episodes where Fluttershy will become TOO assertive and will have to take it down a notch in the end. I don't think anything "shocking" will be in it.

Also, did anyone read that letter from the writer of the Pony episode? Pony was called Ditzy first. It was only changed because of "fanservice". And the writer also mentioned that the new voice is closer to what she imagined the voice would have been. So yeah, the edit right now is actually closer to the original script/idea. I'm pretty glad they made that change.

[ashes]

Just a reminder to please keep this thread on topic.  Thanks!

I think we're just getting a bit ahead of ourselves here.    I think we should just watch the episode and enjoy the series.

[Bunny-san]

Yes, thanks Ashes. If you read the first sentence of the topic post, this is NOT about Pony. Pony is what SPAWNED the concern.  I tend to deeply overthink stuff that really bothers me, or where it feels an injustice has happened. I know it sounds very silly, but I've lost sleep over this kind of stuff. Not really over the partcular Pony issue, but over the fact that such a small minority was catered to over such an obviously vast majority. It used to be that the needs and wants of the many were outweighed by the needs and wants of the few. I guess my mind has a hard time wrapping around the change to that concept, and I'm wondering how far it will go.

I HOPE it doesn't turn into another internet debacle, because honestly, my brain doesn't NEED more stuff to think about at night when it should be sleeping. There's a REASON I don't watch the news or participate in politics. It gets in my head. Then it doesn't get out. Then I don't sleep. The Last Roundup didn't get out of my head for five nights. The fact that I'm constantly on the internet doesn't help And the fact that it was something I *cared* about REALLY didn't help. (Ponies, not Pony<<) Anyway, I'mma shut up now that y'all think I'm crazy

[Wardah]

Honestly there have been people complaining ever since it was announced Lauren Faust wasn't working on the show anymore. They like to say she left because of "creative differences" which implies Hasbro was forcing her to do things she didn't want to do, when it was more they had certain guidelines about certain things (like extreme fighting not being allowed), that she had accepted. She only left because she wanted to try something aimed for a slightly different audience not because there was some kind of a problem. And anyways she wasn't the only one responsible for FIM being awesome. There have always been lots of other awesome writers that make the show what it is.

[babystarz]

That said, I'm glad that Hasbro is moving in a more sensitive direction, since it's clear that by all of the wails of "PC is the very worst" that the message of 'be kind to others' hasn't gotten through yet. Sad, sad, sad.

No kidding. The whole premise of the show is that everyone deserves a basic amount of respect and kindness. It's an inclusive message that seems like a positive message to be sending to me. Is requiring a certain amount of civility really that grating?

I think it's only fair for us give the show a chance and let the episode air before we jump to conclusions.

[sabathamk]

Bunny-san, I'm a lot like you.  I lose sleep over what is normally a silly thing.  I overthink things too... then the next time I just enjoy something, and later on realize something about it due to reading other's comments, and THEN overthink it.  Yup.  You're not crazy. 

I'm looking forward to an ep about Fluttershy.  I honestly have no clue what it is about though.  I really just want an ep that isn't just about Pinkie or Dash as they've been done a lot this season.    Not that I don't like them!  I just want an ep about another pony! 

Please don't be mad at me!  << trying to do best Fluttershy impersonation

[Snapdragon]

I'm not sure how it would be possible for an episode like this to go in such an offensive direction that it could become bannable - especially after the recent hooplah with their latest botched handling of a delicate topic. I think, as long as they don't try to bend over backwards to make a fannish shoutout using an offensive stereotype, then we'll be okay. Then again, they've had some problematic elements before, as well - the Over a Barrel ep and the episode with Twilight Sparkle exhibiting what could be some clear (and 'played for laughs') signs of an anxiety disorder. I understand that it was just their idea of a perfectionistic personality taken to an extreme for a cheap laugh, but - it's not okay.

Long story short, I miss Faust, and I wish they had someone half as sensitive as her to direct this show. I feel that the second season has been lacking. There have been some great episodes, but when they fail, they fail hard.

I'm just hoping the next two Fluttershy episodes don't turn into Dragonshy Parts II and III.

[...]but over the fact that such a small minority was catered to over such an obviously vast majority. It used to be that the needs and wants of the many were outweighed by the needs and wants of the few. I guess my mind has a hard time wrapping around the change to that concept, and I'm wondering how far it will go.

Minority group =/= automatically wrong.

[Icecrystalline]

To be honest, I feel that the people complaining don't really have any ground on which to put their feet down on because My Little Pony was intended for children, it always has been intended to be this way and always will be, and there are us adult and teenage collectors who always have a special place in our heart for ponies, but in fairness to the people who complained to Hasbro, think about this: the show is intended for children, do you really think that a child is going to write to Hasbro and say 'dear hasbro, your funny ponie Pony has funny eyes and speaks funny, I'm quite offended by this'. In all seriousness, no, they really aren't going to do that because the audience is 2-6 year olds! This is most certainly not a 'go' at anyone, this is just what I feel needs to be said, Pony was intended to be cute and clumsy, not to cause offense, so I do feel the people who complained were complaining about something which was really nothing.
It is really sad to think that a lovely kids show which is also enjoyed by us mature and sensible collectors, is now being 'snubbed' and complained about, the kids wouldn't do it, so why should we?

Sorry, this is not intended to be a rant or a go at anyone, it's just me saying what i feel about something quite upsetting really... xxx

[Lancer]

Ugh, tell me about it.  Each new episode of FiM seems to bring more aggro; more offended people, more hate mail, more stress...  I wasn't such a huge fan of the series as some other people here in the first place, but I did look forward to the new episode each weekend.  Now I almost feel like staying in bed every saturday, holding the cover over my head and waiting for the whirlwind of anger and hate to pass by!

(Okay, that was a bit of an exaggeration, but you know what I mean!)

So no, you're not alone on this.  Some people just take their cartoons TOO seriously, and FiM doesn't exactly take this into account and play it safe all the time!  But with a fanbase as big as this one, I guess it's to be expected.  Just ignore the fighting and try to enjoy the show for what it is.

[Malicieuse]

To be honest, I feel that the people complaining don't really have any ground on which to put their feet down on because My Little Pony was intended for children, it always has been intended to be this way and always will be, and there are us adult and teenage collectors who always have a special place in our heart for ponies, but in fairness to the people who complained to Hasbro, think about this: the show is intended for children, do you really think that a child is going to write to Hasbro and say 'dear hasbro, your funny ponie Pony has funny eyes and speaks funny, I'm quite offended by this'. In all seriousness, no, they really aren't going to do that because the audience is 2-6 year olds! This is most certainly not a 'go' at anyone, this is just what I feel needs to be said, Pony was intended to be cute and clumsy, not to cause offense, so I do feel the people who complained were complaining about something which was really nothing.
It is really sad to think that a lovely kids show which is also enjoyed by us mature and sensible collectors, is now being 'snubbed' and complained about, the kids wouldn't do it, so why should we?

Sorry, this is not intended to be a rant or a go at anyone, it's just me saying what i feel about something quite upsetting really... xxx

Kids wouldn't grasp "racially motivated jokes" either but that doesn't make them ok.

[Bunny-san]

Snapdragon, let me start by saying that I never said that being part of a minority group automatically made *anyone* wrong. I feel in this particular *case* there was wrongdoing on the part of Hasbro, simply because this was a case where it was SO FREAKING EASY to make everyone happy by simply editing the episode and making it available for the people that wanted an edited version, and leaving the unedited version up for download as well. Instead they made a furor by just making the small group happy and to heck with everyone else. In the case of any future DVD releases, all they had to do was make separate audio tracks (Like they do for different language tracks) so people could MAKE the choice. Instead, they just took the choice away, and I really think that's what upset people, is that the choice was taken from them.

Malicieuse, I absolutely agree that racial jokes made in kids shows are not okay just because they fly over their heads. But I think people going after Pony in Last Roundup and getting all upset over Over a Barrel is just going a bit overboard. There are honestly WAY bigger fish to fry in media when it comes to genuine and intentional stabs at race and mentally challenged children that have gone unchallenged and unchanged for years, and no one has gotten all in an uproar about them. Has anyone watched an episode of South Park lately? If you want to talk offensive material, South Park is about as genuinely offensive to just about anyone as you can get! And that stuff is on during daytime hours when kids could easily get a hold of it if they were unsupervised or got the remote by accident, or Mom never set up parental controls. Come on. Timmeh? I mean, kids have way worse stuff that they could be exposed to than a sweet little cross-eyed pony who is really accident prone, or a conflict between settlers and natives that is resolved in a relatively non-violent manner that benefits both parties in the end. Did no one have a friend as a kid that had crossed eyes that was accident prone with a low voice? I did, she was on my softball team and she was *awful* but we never cared because we loved her anyway because we always had fun playing the game! Didn't anyone ever play cowboys and indians as a kid in their back yard with the neighborhood kids or on the play ground? Of course we did, because we were kids, and racism didn't compute with us!

There's being sensitive to the needs of others, which is perfectly fine and great and you should always try your best to do; and then there's being overly sensitive to the point where you can't say or do anything at all without fearing offense. EVERYONE gets offended. But I think society seems to have forgotten that a big part of being offended is being able to swallow your offense and move on with your life. Especially when it doesn't cause any major interruption or disruption to your daily life. And sometimes, we just need to remember that it's okay to just agree to disagree without flaming each other. (That last part is particularly true in politics )

And I'll finish by saying, I know some folks love South Park. It's a funny show for adults sure. But I've heard horror stories (horror stories to me as a parent at least) of parents watching South Park with their SIX YEAR OLDS. And I'm just like. No. Ponies. Kids watch PONIES. (And Mickey Mouse.) And ponies to me are not Racist, they do not try to or outright change their friends because they're different. And everything that's been said about "Oh, this is racist this!" and "She's mentally disabled and offensive that!" that just really upsets me because just...No. Ponies love everyone, and solve everything through love and friendship. And we should follow suit, and enjoy the show, and stop with all this over-analyzing stuff.

[Pythia]

Has anyone watched an episode of South Park lately? If you want to talk offensive material, South Park is about as genuinely offensive to just about anyone as you can get!

You do realise that the word 'Derp' came from South Park in the first place, right?

As for this ep, I'm worried it might go in the direction that Fluttershy needs to be less shy, like it usually seems to. I don't like the idea that it's bad to be shy and that she needs to change. Some people aren't very outgoing or extroverted, and making them feel like that's a bad thing that should be changed usually just makes the problem worse.

[Elisto]

I personally think the "unintentional" offenses are just as bad as the intentional ones because by saying it's OK as long as the person didn't mean it, that implies that it's OK to not be aware of how what you say or do affects others. This is much more an issue to me in children's shows than in intentionally adult/offensive shows because children presumably don't know. And since MLP is supposed to be "educational", I think that means they have to be extra careful about the messages they're sending because the whole premise of having a moral at the end implies that this is not "just a cartoon." This is why I have been critical of a number of episodes and portrayals in FiM, as much as I do like it. I don't think it's sending a "bad" message, but I think there are times when it could be better. As for the current episode, I'm still waiting to see it....

[LadyMoondancer]

I think "unintentionally offensive" is often worse than "intentionally mean", because with the latter you can tell kids, "That person is being MEAN, don't be like that!"  It's harder to grasp "that person is not trying to be mean, but what they're saying is not okay."

This reminds me of a story someone told me about her elderly mother-in-law.  She, her husband, and the mother-in-law were all at a basketball game and halfway through the mother-in-law turned to the other two and said, with a big happy smile on her face, "Isn't it nice that black people have something to be good at?"

Was the mother-in-law trying to be mean?  No.  Was that a cringe-worthy and offensive statement?  Yes!

Anyway, getting back on topic, I don't really understand why you think this episode would be at all equivalent to the Pony situation?  Obviously it's going to be "Fluttershy is a doormat, then Fluttershy is overly mean, then Fluttershy finds out she can be assertive without being mean."

The issue with Pony was there wasn't any lesson at all, it was "Rainbow Dash shouts at Pony, Pony screws up, Rainbow Dash continues to be angry, Pony continues to mess up . . . Okay, that's a wrap."  The problem wasn't "she's mentally disabled", it was "main character screams at a disabled character for clumsiness that she can't help."  The whole scene really made me dislike Rainbow Dash, who at one point was my favorite pony.

Spoiler for today's episode:

Spoiler

Fluttershy was a doormat, then Fluttershy was overly mean, then Fluttershy found out she can be assertive without being mean.